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Post by beren44 on Jan 22, 2018 17:33:48 GMT
I'm thinking he goes back in time with them and keeps the destruction of the Earth from happening. Well, that's a big possibility. Especially, since Robin kept repeating Flint's name and moaning that no-one listens to her. It also makes sense in that the memories were from that Enoch never had intervened as in that there are only two time loops. One where they didn't go into the future and one where they do and bring back Flint. And no repetitions to finally get it right. Despite my objections, there is also another reason why that Twitter guy was right. Why would Fitz spend decades to design the time travel machine when he has seen the thing and probably its design as well? I think we are getting close to the what the hell is going on here, guys 😎 I hope you are right. This season is not going the way I want at all. I am teetering on the edge of 'wish it had been over after season 4, on a high note' and ' Jemma Simmons's "trust the writers". They are gonna have to pull a very large rabbit out of the hat, if there is any sense to be made of this season. I am hoping for a large rabbit🤔 |
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Post by Hari Seldon on Jan 22, 2018 19:52:03 GMT
Well, that's a big possibility. Especially, since Robin kept repeating Flint's name and moaning that no-one listens to her. It also makes sense in that the memories were from that Enoch never had intervened as in that there are only two time loops. One where they didn't go into the future and one where they do and bring back Flint. And no repetitions to finally get it right. Despite my objections, there is also another reason why that Twitter guy was right. Why would Fitz spend decades to design the time travel machine when he has seen the thing and probably its design as well? I think we are getting close to the what the hell is going on here, guys 😎 I hope you are right. This season is not going the way I want at all. I am teetering on the edge of 'wish it had been over after season 4, on a high note' and ' Jemma Simmons 's "trust the writers". They are gonna have to pull a very large rabbit out of the hat, if there is any sense to be made of this season. I am hoping for a large rabbit🤔 And hopefully they don't miss it by a hare. Edit:I've continued this in the Characters' songs thread.  |
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Post by ayanami on Jan 22, 2018 19:55:43 GMT
Well, that's a big possibility. Especially, since Robin kept repeating Flint's name and moaning that no-one listens to her. It also makes sense in that the memories were from that Enoch never had intervened as in that there are only two time loops. One where they didn't go into the future and one where they do and bring back Flint. And no repetitions to finally get it right. Despite my objections, there is also another reason why that Twitter guy was right. Why would Fitz spend decades to design the time travel machine when he has seen the thing and probably its design as well? I think we are getting close to the what the hell is going on here, guys 😎 I hope you are right. This season is not going the way I want at all. I am teetering on the edge of 'wish it had been over after season 4, on a high note' and ' Jemma Simmons 's "trust the writers". They are gonna have to pull a very large rabbit out of the hat, if there is any sense to be made of this season. I am hoping for a large rabbit🤔 Eh, I'm having lots of fun with this season so far. Plus, there's a huuuuge difference between a plot not making sense, and simply not all pieces of the puzzle having been revealed yet. We're obviously dealing with the latter here, so I see no reason at all to be upset about the sense - or lack thereof - of the time travel plot. |
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Post by koos on Jan 22, 2018 21:25:02 GMT
I hope you are right. This season is not going the way I want at all. I am teetering on the edge of 'wish it had been over after season 4, on a high note' and ' Jemma Simmons 's "trust the writers". They are gonna have to pull a very large rabbit out of the hat, if there is any sense to be made of this season. I am hoping for a large rabbit🤔 Eh, I'm having lots of fun with this season so far. Plus, there's a huuuuge difference between a plot not making sense, and simply not all pieces of the puzzle having been revealed yet. We're obviously dealing with the latter here, so I see no reason at all to be upset about the sense - or lack thereof - of the time travel plot. I agree and I also very much enjoy this season. |
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Post by backroadjunkie on Jan 22, 2018 21:29:48 GMT
Gah! This is why I hate time travel.  I don't think it's diner/no diner. It is Enoch/no Enoch. If Enoch didn't intercept the team, they would have all been arrested by Hale in the diner. (She was there soon after Fitz regained consciousness, unless her appearance was because Enoch became involved.) Since it was the Team Gen. Hale was after, Robin may have flown under the radar. (Hale didn't seem to know if Robin was important in Ep. 5 when she was first discovered.) Without Enoch, Robin's "prophecy" would have remained hidden. The Team could have easily found her after returning from the future because she was registered by the Sokovia Accords. In this timeline, they crash the Zephyr because of a gravity storm. In the Enoch timeline, Robin only becomes endangered because she is discovered while Hale is searching for Fitz, much the same way Voss kills Robin after not being able to kill Quake. We don't know if Hale continues to pursue Robin after Fitz escapes with Enoch. Hunter only participates in the Enoch timeline. Why wouldn't Hunter stay in the Lighthouse and prep it for the coming disaster? After all, his life at the moment is a disaster. He's hanging out with losers and has no funds. No one else (at least on the good guy side) knows of Robin's prophecy. Someone had to install the life-support systems and furnish the place. It'd be the perfect place to hide Robin, since no one seems to know the Lighthouse (in 2018) exists. Hunter may not know the world is Quaked apart in 2018, but he does know it's soon. In addition, if Robin stays in the Lighthouse in this timeline, the Zephyr MAY NOT HAVE CRASHED, and it still airworthy (spaceworthy?), which is what Robin was trying to tell May. Still too many unknowns. I'm pretty sure we see what transpires when the Team returns to current time, it should fill in some answers. Well, I hope that's the case. And, if you're still looking for a pilot, I believe Bobbi fits the bill... I chose the Diner as a point of reference because the show made a point of saying it's the last place/time the team was seen together I don't remember them saying she was registered. It's very possible that she wasn't since she got her gift at such a young age. Her mom could have kept her under the radar. However, mentioning the Accords is important. IMO, it's one of the things Bobbi and Hunter would have to protect her from...... You might be right that she flew under the radar, since Hale didn't seem to know of her. However, her Dad was known, and I'm sure documented. It's not like her Mom was tried to hide her. I'd think with the tech SHIELD has at hand (even in the Zephyr), she'd be easy to find. Welcome to the time paradox. In the future, the Zephyr does crash. Until Enoch gets involved. When that happens, and the team doesn't have to pursue Robin, it doesn't. You know the photo in Back to the Future, where Marty and his brother/sister start disappearing? That was a dramatic stretch, but in reality, if his parents don't get married, all three get snuffed from history in an instant because they were never created to start with. The Zephyr may have crashed in this reality, but as soon as events in 2017/2018 take place, the plane could become usable. This is the BIG problem with Flint coming back to current time. If the Team prevents the disaster, and his parents never meet because people aren't being breed by Casius, Flint should cease to exist IN THE SAME REALITY. SHIELD leftover/holdouts? ATCU? Watchdogs? There are a number of high-tech outfits that may still be around for hire... |
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Post by backroadjunkie on Jan 22, 2018 21:43:20 GMT
Their shipper name is Philinda. I have one question about Flint coming back from the future to save the world. once the timeline is changed, how will he be born? He can't be adopted by Mack and Elena because he will fade from existence like Marty McFly and his brother and sister. I should have read ahead. I just made this point. I agree Flint will either be involved in the Monolith or the reconstruction of Earth, or both. I like the idea of him doing a number on the monolith, though the machine on the Zephyr doesn't look like it needs the entire stone. It looks like it needs a smaller piece, like the blocks cut out of the Maveth monolith. |
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Post by backroadjunkie on Jan 22, 2018 23:23:09 GMT
The basis of the theory is an alternative version of the Groundhog Day movie. The notebook plays an important role in this, indeed. We see that Enoch uses this book to describe in all of the pictures he has laid in front of him. I assume that this book (as others also did) is transported back with the team to the past. I assumed that they were brought to the same time as the team was send to the future. But I think it is a small moment before that or perhaps even a longer moment. Because this theory wasn’t originated by the notebook but because of a small comment a man said made right before they send the team to the future that has bugged me for a while: “And the coat pockets. Clean it up, please.”. Why the hell would their pockets needed to be empty when sending them to the future? Empty them when they are back, is more logical. To get the notebook, is my guess now. I also think they have send back the pictures in time and that’s when Enoch put them on the fridge. I have said early to check something out and that was to see if there has been a change on his fridge between the opening scene and episode 5. But that appeared to be the same. Maybe he has put new info somewhere on another wall. It was filled with all the ancient language stuff. Since Caseyrook didn't do a 5.5 rundown  , I was forced out to IMDB. Here's one of the quotes: Leo Fitz: What are these symbols? Enoch: An ancient language from another galaxy. Never known to anyone on Earth. Until her. Are those symbols a message from Robin, or someone else who used Robin as an intermediary? (This could be the next arc of the season, for all I know.) Football season. That Ep premiered in December, in the middle of the NFL season. (Not to mention Manitowoc (weren't they supposed to be in Manitowoc?) is only 30 miles outside of Green Bay...) Also, it looks like it's spelled "Chronicom", which is awfully close to Comic-Con. Chronicum sounds like a porn term, or something that would come out of South Park.  If Enoch is operating from the notebook that he's writing in 2091, then that list. But yeah, there so much backstory that's questionable, I hope we get to see the reasons. As much as I hate to make all of this more convoluted than it is, we are all assuming Hale, et.al. all have something to do with the current situation. Like the LMDs being introduced during Ghost Rider, they were really low key until the second arc. We still have over a half-season left in the show. We know how the showrunners of AoS operate. Perhaps we're not seeing the forest for the trees... I did address this later in this thread. With the new Enoch/notebook timeline, what if the Zephyr never crashed in 2018? Gah! This is why I hate time travel. In the current timeline we're witnessing, the Earth is destroyed. Robin lived and died in this timeline. Now let's say the Team goes back in time and prevents the Earth from being destroyed because of some clue or help from Enoch. This breaks the cycle, and the timeline we've been seeing, ceases to exist, because the Earth was never destroyed. (In this reality.) However Robin (in the previous timeline), never sees this reality, because the new timeline was created after her 2091 death. Robin in 2018 would see a new reality based on the Earth staying intact. She would never see Enoch (or the Team's) involvement because that reality no longer exists. Yeah, I know, clear as mud... There is nothing to say the Team is not sent to the future though some other circumstance. The time monolith does still exist after all, unless the Monolith was the creation of Enoch. Someplace else in this thread, I posited that the Team was sent into the Future (with Fitz), but perhaps sans Coulson and Mack, which is why they don't seem to exist in 2022. I am guessing that the team is sent to the future without Enoch's involvement (initially). It is only after he starts injecting himself into the timeline to try to save the Earth that we see the storyline as it is now. What? You want another JR wakes from a dream? The writers would be pilloried. (If you don't get the JR reference, you must be young... BWAhahahaha...) This assumes the multiverse doesn't exist. It does in the MCU/MTU. In a world with alternate realities/dimensions, any future outcome is possible if you follow the correct timeline/reality. It may be that a reality seems fixed because you're locked into that timeline, but as we've seen, the boundaries between realities can be crossed... |
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Post by backroadjunkie on Jan 22, 2018 23:30:20 GMT
I have a hard time with Coulson getting rid of something he thinks is very important in Eps 1 through 3. Maybe it's still on the Lighthouse in his room, or in the trawler, but I can't believe it's gone... He *is* a spy. Maybe he committed the whole notebook to memory. You are forcing me to accept that theory. He is AGENT Phil Coulson, after all.... |
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Post by caseyrook AKA Mechelle on Jan 22, 2018 23:35:08 GMT
He *is* a spy. Maybe he committed the whole notebook to memory. You are forcing me to accept that theory. He is AGENT Phil Coulson, after all.... Yeah, well the alternative is that he did get rid of the notebook despite its importance. We are talking about the same SPY that once got caught bugging a Senator's office in broad daylight while the Senator was still in the building... So either, really good memory or really dumb disposing of the book. |
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Post by backroadjunkie on Jan 22, 2018 23:38:48 GMT
I'm thinking he goes back in time with them and keeps the destruction of the Earth from happening. Okay, ready for this? If Flint goes back in time and saves Earth from destruction, then Flint ceases to exist because he was never born. If Flint never existed, then how can he save Earth? This is why real time travel is bad... |
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Post by backroadjunkie on Jan 22, 2018 23:52:06 GMT
I hope you are right. This season is not going the way I want at all. I am teetering on the edge of 'wish it had been over after season 4, on a high note' and ' Jemma Simmons 's "trust the writers". They are gonna have to pull a very large rabbit out of the hat, if there is any sense to be made of this season. I am hoping for a large rabbit🤔 Eh, I'm having lots of fun with this season so far. Plus, there's a huuuuge difference between a plot not making sense, and simply not all pieces of the puzzle having been revealed yet. We're obviously dealing with the latter here, so I see no reason at all to be upset about the sense - or lack thereof - of the time travel plot. You know, I really should be doing other things than speculating on a TV show... But I agree I'm having fun with this season. Last season was an action based season. We pretty much knew the antagonists, and what the Team was up against. Fight against the Darkhold, fight against Aida and her minions. This season isn't necessarily action based, but more of a whodunnit. (And a whydunnit and a howdunnit.) We started the season completely in the dark, and are being fed clues a bit at a time in each episode... The more we get into it, the more the Kree side of things seems to be unimportant. They are just a side effect of Earth's destruction. But we shall see... Here's my best scenario. The Earth is saved, the Team goes and visits Robin, and instead of drawing pictures of the Earth breaking apart, she's drawing pictures of Thanos... |
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Post by Hari Seldon on Jan 23, 2018 0:01:50 GMT
What? You want another JR wakes from a dream? The writers would be pilloried. (If you don't get the JR reference, you must be young... BWAhahahaha...) I didn't watch Dallas (one of the few), but I thought it was the wife of the guy they brought back who woke from the dream. JR's brother or brother-in-law or something. And all of those scenarios mentioned where a solution wouldn't happen because the problem or the solver wouldn't exist in the first place are called temporal paradoxes. |
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Post by aquaangel on Jan 23, 2018 0:20:23 GMT
backroadjunkie, Mack was mentioned in 2022. Elena said he was gone and never coming back. That likely meant dead. So he at least had been with the others in 2022 at some point. There was no mention there of Coulson though. What? You want another JR wakes from a dream? The writers would be pilloried. (If you don't get the JR reference, you must be young... BWAhahahaha...) I didn't watch Dallas (one of the few), but I thought it was the wife of the guy they brought back who woke from the dream. JR's brother or brother-in-law or something. And all of those scenarios mentioned where a solution wouldn't happen because the problem or the solver wouldn't exist in the first place are called temporal paradoxes. Patrick Duffy's character, Bobby Ewing (JR's brother) was hit by a car and killed when the actor wanted to leave the show. When he decided he wanted to return, they had Bobby's wife dream that past season where he was dead. Weird, right? Well, I think the upcoming revival of Roseanne is pulling something similar. In the original final season, Roseanne's hubby Dan died of a heart attack. However, he is going to be alive in the revival which is set in present time, so likely Roseanne will have dreamed his death. I don't want any kind of thing like that on AOS.
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Post by DoTheMath on Jan 23, 2018 0:34:35 GMT
Think of time travel as similar to Schroedinger's cat: nothing IS until it's observed. That's why Fitz was wrong in Spacetime. When one looks back, all they see is THE past; therefore, the future must be fixed. However, that's not exactly the case. You CANNOT change the past (of a certain timeline) but the future is uncertain. The team's "past" will include them being taken at the diner, traveling to the future, returning to 2017/18 and doing whatever it is they end up doing. Robin of 2017/18 will have memories of all her pasts due to her "gift". Fitz was right in Spacetime. That was General Relativity. Schroedinger's cat is Quantum Theory. However, it still holds what Fitz said according to this theory. Because the future was observed and therefore can’t be changed. The whole point of Fitz is, is that there is only one timeline in one universe. This also holds true for Quantum Theory. To solve time-travel paradoxes the notion of parallel universes is introduced. And that is based on the same notion that at each moment infinite possibilities exist and that only one reality is left after it is observed. I'll conceed that Fitz was indeed accurate in Spacetime. Robin's dad observed the future so it was certain, in that one, singular, timeline. One time;ine from beginning to end. I know full well that Shreodinger's cat is quantum theory. I was using it as an analogy to demonstrate that nothing IS until it's observed; and, that includes the future. String theory was born from this, and string theory led to the infinite universe theory where the fourth dimension gets....... stringy... We are now (or will be) dealing with multiple timelines and Robin is the only one who has seen them all due to her gift. Her gift allowed her to see timelines that did not exist yet. If the team returns to 2018 and succeeds in preventing the cataclysm, then Robin will live a different life than the one we saw. The team won't change the past, they'll actually create a new (stringy) timeline....... and we haven't seen anything from Robin about the future of that timeline (because the writers haven't written S6, yet) Also you mentioned something about Fitz knowing Voss' plan. Can you elaborate, please? I only remember Fitz becoming aware of Voss' treachery when he realized the door was locked. |
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Post by Jemma Simmons on Jan 23, 2018 0:48:12 GMT
Fitz was right in Spacetime. That was General Relativity. Schroedinger's cat is Quantum Theory. However, it still holds what Fitz said according to this theory. Because the future was observed and therefore can’t be changed. The whole point of Fitz is, is that there is only one timeline in one universe. This also holds true for Quantum Theory. To solve time-travel paradoxes the notion of parallel universes is introduced. And that is based on the same notion that at each moment infinite possibilities exist and that only one reality is left after it is observed. I'll conceed that Fitz was indeed accurate in Spacetime. Robin's dad observed the future so it was certain, in that one, singular, timeline. One time;ine from beginning to end. I know full well that Shreodinger's cat is quantum theory. I was using it as an analogy to demonstrate that nothing IS until it's observed; and, that includes the future. String theory was born from this, and string theory led to the infinite universe theory where the fourth dimension gets....... stringy... We are now (or will be) dealing with multiple timelines and Robin is the only one who has seen them all due to her gift. Her gift allowed her to see timelines that did not exist yet. If the team returns to 2018 and succeeds in preventing the cataclysm, then Robin will live a different life than the one we saw. The team won't change the past, they'll actually create a new (stringy) timeline....... and we haven't seen anything from Robin about the future of that timeline (because the writers haven't written S6, yet) Also you mentioned something about Fitz knowing Voss' plan. Can you elaborate, please? I only remember Fitz becoming aware of Voss' treachery when he realized the door was locked.I'm curious about this too... I mean Fitz did say when he was on his rant to May about not being able to change the future that Voss tried. I'm assuming this was after all that happened and they went back in time anyway? If so, I'm going to assume he just meant that Voss tried to stop things from happening with his attempt to kill Daisy. |
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, I was forced out to IMDB. Here's one of the quotes:
