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Post by DoTheMath on Jan 22, 2018 2:43:05 GMT
I don't think Coulson would leave Daisy just yet. And I wouldn't want coulmay (what is their actual shipper name?) to leave the show. I'd love for Mackelena to adopt Flint (almost wrote Fitz lol)... And he's a cool character, so I wouldn't mind having him around more. I don't want to see Daisy as director anytime soon. I don't think she's ready yet. As for a FitzSimmons honeymoon, I'm all for it. Their shipper name is Philinda. I have one question about Flint coming back from the future to save the world. once the timeline is changed, how will he be born? He can't be adopted by Mack and Elena because he will fade from existence like Marty McFly and his brother and sister. is right - it hasn't been stated, yet (that's just me screwing around). Time travel is tricky stuff. Many theories and none proven. In this theory - think of a different timeline as somewhat akin to a different dimension. BTF used a more linear theory wherein a timeline could be changed, but as of late it's common to see the multiple-timelines theories play out in fiction. Physics is darky, stringy, loopy, foamy or a whole plethora of other unproven (but heavily funded) theories..... Think of time travel as similar to Schroedinger's cat: nothing IS until it's observed. That's why Fitz was wrong in Spacetime. When one looks back, all they see is THE past; therefore, the future must be fixed. However, that's not exactly the case. You CANNOT change the past (of a certain timeline) but the future is uncertain. The team's "past" will include them being taken at the diner, traveling to the future, returning to 2017/18 and doing whatever it is they end up doing. Robin of 2017/18 will have memories of all her pasts due to her "gift". Right now the team is facing one of two new timelines: either they get back or they don't - when they get back to 2017/18 they'll most likely attempt to stop the cataclysm that Robin lived through, which will entail two possible new timelines: One where they succeed and one where they don't. Regardless, Robin will always have lived and then died in the lighthouse in 2091 AND lived and had a new future due to events she started in 2017 by Enoch sending the team to the future and Robin telling Fitz he had to go to the future to save them - then growing up in a world not rent asunder by.... whoever or whatever. |
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Post by Hari Seldon on Jan 22, 2018 3:14:12 GMT
First things first, the rewatch chat from earlier tonight: LiveChatS05E08a.docx (26.55 KB) And there were so many posts I was catching up on in this thread I can only paraphrase and not identify who said them. Hopefully it's one of the previous incarnations of The Doctor. It was established in 1972 that something like they are doing now would create a temporal paradox which can only be broken by a Time Lord. My top candidates to guest star would be Paul McGann or Sean Pertwee (his father, Jon Pertwee, was The Doctor in the episode where this was established). Until the twitter bit about the 2022 timeline being without the diner kidnapping I was already thinking that maybe they had taken him back and he was the one who fragmented the Earth - and that was why May was so anxious to know who he was. She wasn't in Enoch's kitchen to see the two agents standing there with one holding an apple. |
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Post by DoTheMath on Jan 22, 2018 3:29:18 GMT
First things first, the rewatch chat from earlier tonight: And there were so many posts I was catching up on in this thread I can only paraphrase and not identify who said them. Hopefully it's one of the previous incarnations of The Doctor. It was established in 1972 that something like they are doing now would create a temporal paradox which can only be broken by a Time Lord. My top candidates to guest star would be Paul McGann or Sean Pertwee (his father, Jon Pertwee, was The Doctor in the episode where this was established). Until the twitter bit about the 2022 timeline being without the diner kidnapping I was already thinking that maybe they had taken him back and he was the one who fragmented the Earth - and that was why May was so anxious to know who he was. She wasn't in Enoch's kitchen to see the two agents standing there with one holding an apple. Change "Robin can only see events she witnesses during her lifespan" to "Robin can only see events that happen/happened during her lifespan" then you'll be spot-on.  |
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Post by DoTheMath on Jan 22, 2018 4:09:00 GMT
And now I'll really go off the rails: Season will end with: Robin's real mom dies and Coulson and May retire and adopt Robin Mack and Elena adopt Flint Daisy becomes Director of SHIELD (because we just KNOW it's gonna happen sometime) Mr. and Mrs. FitzSimmons go to the Seychelles I don't think Coulson would leave Daisy just yet. And I wouldn't want coulmay (what is their actual shipper name?) to leave the show. I'd love for Mackelena to adopt Flint (almost wrote Fitz lol)... And he's a cool character, so I wouldn't mind having him around more. I don't want to see Daisy as director anytime soon. I don't think she's ready yet. As for a FitzSimmons honeymoon, I'm all for it. I thought of Philinda retiring due to Enoch's comment to May about finding a new line of work, followed-up in the next ep by May's comment about (paraphrasing) being worthless if she can't protect the team. I figure she may continue to think that and retire. If the "only one Coulson trusts to watch his back" (good thing Daisy didn't hear that) retires, then he will, too. Then Philinda will take their adoptive daughter into their retirement home and feed Director Daisy intel while the FitzSimmons' vacay in the isles...... |
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Post by backroadjunkie on Jan 22, 2018 9:32:19 GMT
Remember, as soon as SHIELD left the diner, the timeline changed. We're watching two timelines: diner and no diner. Old woman Robin grew old and died in the no diner timeline. Young Robin is still alive in the diner timeline. When Fitz and Enoch left to hibernate in Space: Robin, her (real) Mom and Hunter were left behind. Hunter said he and Bobbi would keep the girl safe. I surmise his intent wasn't to live in the lighthouse forever. With Zephyr One sitting outside, who do you think He'd call on to pilot Z1? Any guesses ayanami ? Gah! This is why I hate time travel. I don't think it's diner/no diner. It is Enoch/no Enoch. If Enoch didn't intercept the team, they would have all been arrested by Hale in the diner. (She was there soon after Fitz regained consciousness, unless her appearance was because Enoch became involved.) Since it was the Team Gen. Hale was after, Robin may have flown under the radar. (Hale didn't seem to know if Robin was important in Ep. 5 when she was first discovered.) Without Enoch, Robin's "prophecy" would have remained hidden. The Team could have easily found her after returning from the future because she was registered by the Sokovia Accords. In this timeline, they crash the Zephyr because of a gravity storm. In the Enoch timeline, Robin only becomes endangered because she is discovered while Hale is searching for Fitz, much the same way Voss kills Robin after not being able to kill Quake. We don't know if Hale continues to pursue Robin after Fitz escapes with Enoch. Hunter only participates in the Enoch timeline. Why wouldn't Hunter stay in the Lighthouse and prep it for the coming disaster? After all, his life at the moment is a disaster. He's hanging out with losers and has no funds. No one else (at least on the good guy side) knows of Robin's prophecy. Someone had to install the life-support systems and furnish the place. It'd be the perfect place to hide Robin, since no one seems to know the Lighthouse (in 2018) exists. Hunter may not know the world is Quaked apart in 2018, but he does know it's soon. In addition, if Robin stays in the Lighthouse in this timeline, the Zephyr MAY NOT HAVE CRASHED, and it still airworthy (spaceworthy?), which is what Robin was trying to tell May. Still too many unknowns. I'm pretty sure we see what transpires when the Team returns to current time, it should fill in some answers. Well, I hope that's the case. And, if you're still looking for a pilot, I believe Bobbi fits the bill... |
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Post by backroadjunkie on Jan 22, 2018 9:38:47 GMT
About that notebook: I have it in my headcanon that Coulson got rid of it in the time before he and May, Tess, Mack, and Elena were magnetized to those stairs in 5x03. Because you know that Grill would have searched all of them when Zev brought them back to Salvage. I have a hard time with Coulson getting rid of something he thinks is very important in Eps 1 through 3. Maybe it's still on the Lighthouse in his room, or in the trawler, but I can't believe it's gone... |
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Post by DoTheMath on Jan 22, 2018 12:57:34 GMT
Remember, as soon as SHIELD left the diner, the timeline changed. We're watching two timelines: diner and no diner. Old woman Robin grew old and died in the no diner timeline. Young Robin is still alive in the diner timeline. When Fitz and Enoch left to hibernate in Space: Robin, her (real) Mom and Hunter were left behind. Hunter said he and Bobbi would keep the girl safe. I surmise his intent wasn't to live in the lighthouse forever. With Zephyr One sitting outside, who do you think He'd call on to pilot Z1? Any guesses ayanami ? Gah! This is why I hate time travel. I don't think it's diner/no diner. It is Enoch/no Enoch. If Enoch didn't intercept the team, they would have all been arrested by Hale in the diner. (She was there soon after Fitz regained consciousness, unless her appearance was because Enoch became involved.) Since it was the Team Gen. Hale was after, Robin may have flown under the radar. (Hale didn't seem to know if Robin was important in Ep. 5 when she was first discovered.) Without Enoch, Robin's "prophecy" would have remained hidden. The Team could have easily found her after returning from the future because she was registered by the Sokovia Accords. In this timeline, they crash the Zephyr because of a gravity storm. In the Enoch timeline, Robin only becomes endangered because she is discovered while Hale is searching for Fitz, much the same way Voss kills Robin after not being able to kill Quake. We don't know if Hale continues to pursue Robin after Fitz escapes with Enoch. Hunter only participates in the Enoch timeline. Why wouldn't Hunter stay in the Lighthouse and prep it for the coming disaster? After all, his life at the moment is a disaster. He's hanging out with losers and has no funds. No one else (at least on the good guy side) knows of Robin's prophecy. Someone had to install the life-support systems and furnish the place. It'd be the perfect place to hide Robin, since no one seems to know the Lighthouse (in 2018) exists. Hunter may not know the world is Quaked apart in 2018, but he does know it's soon. In addition, if Robin stays in the Lighthouse in this timeline, the Zephyr MAY NOT HAVE CRASHED, and it still airworthy (spaceworthy?), which is what Robin was trying to tell May. Still too many unknowns. I'm pretty sure we see what transpires when the Team returns to current time, it should fill in some answers. Well, I hope that's the case. And, if you're still looking for a pilot, I believe Bobbi fits the bill... I chose the Diner as a point of reference because the show made a point of saying it's the last place/time the team was seen together I don't remember them saying she was registered. It's very possible that she wasn't since she got her gift at such a young age. Her mom could have kept her under the radar. However, mentioning the Accords is important. IMO, it's one of the things Bobbi and Hunter would have to protect her from...... I'll have to go back and look, but in the brief 2091 exterior shot of Z1 we saw, it looked crashed to me. However, whatever the timeline it seems that the Zephyr and Flint are important pieces of the puzzle for how this will all play out. The thing that's got me is: who were the tactical team Enoch used to grab the team? Mercs? They were organized and equipped with some high tech toys. Obviously not military since Hale doesn't know what happened, so who the hell were they? |
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Post by Hari Seldon on Jan 22, 2018 13:20:25 GMT
About that notebook: I have it in my headcanon that Coulson got rid of it in the time before he and May, Tess, Mack, and Elena were magnetized to those stairs in 5x03. Because you know that Grill would have searched all of them when Zev brought them back to Salvage. I have a hard time with Coulson getting rid of something he thinks is very important in Eps 1 through 3. Maybe it's still on the Lighthouse in his room, or in the trawler, but I can't believe it's gone... I'd have to go back and rewatch to confirm, but as I recall, Virgil's notebook was just a log that led them to a particular asteroid (actually piece of the Earth) where they got the signal from the surface radio transmission being sent out by Robin's camp. It may have also played a part in the decoding. It seemed like Enoch was hanging on to the actual high tech toys (the thing that freezes people and the appearance changer for the van), but they certainly were familiar with the toys. It also seems like they were human and used on demand - the bit with the one guy saying his wife thought he was off doing fantasy sports in contrast with the reveal that Enoch lives alone doesn't seem to have any other purpose. |
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Post by koos on Jan 22, 2018 14:36:45 GMT
The basis of the theory is an alternative version of the Groundhog Day movie. The notebook plays an important role in this, indeed. We see that Enoch uses this book to describe in all of the pictures he has laid in front of him. I assume that this book (as others also did) is transported back with the team to the past. I assumed that they were brought to the same time as the team was send to the future. But I think it is a small moment before that or perhaps even a longer moment. Because this theory wasn’t originated by the notebook but because of a small comment a man said made right before they send the team to the future that has bugged me for a while: “And the coat pockets. Clean it up, please.”. Why the hell would their pockets needed to be empty when sending them to the future? Empty them when they are back, is more logical. To get the notebook, is my guess now. I also think they have send back the pictures in time and that’s when Enoch put them on the fridge. I have said early to check something out and that was to see if there has been a change on his fridge between the opening scene and episode 5. But that appeared to be the same. Maybe he has put new info somewhere on another wall. It was filled with all the ancient language stuff. A crewmember from Enoch (all Chronicums?) said to a team member: “Haven't done one of these in a while. You? My wife thinks that I'm at a friend's house for our fantasy draft. Doesn't even occur to her that we're in the middle of the season.” What season? My guess is that Chronicums do this throughout the universe and sometimes a small crew is needed to intervene on a planet. Or with the season he meant that they are in the middle of the Fight the General talked about. Enoch also said that Fitz was not on the list. What list? Robin’s drawing? Or an actual list on the notebook. And how did Enoch met Robin? Well, will probably learn about this. Anyway, they send them back to the past with at least the notebook. The crew arrives and give a clue to Hunter that Fitz is missing (Hunter said that he had heard he was missing. From whom if no-one misses him?). With the new info they try to stop the destruction from happening. I think this Fight that General Hale is talking about is connected with it. They fail and an new attempt with updated info from the Seer is send back to time. Small changes. Until they succeed. The notebook Enoch is writing in. IS IT THE SAME NOTEBOOK THAT COULSON HAS THAT BELONGED TO VIRGIL? Is that what Robin means when she says Coulson will bring everything together? General Hale is from the future, or at least is working for someone who does. After Fitz, Robin and Enoch escape, Evans and Lucas are killed because they know Robin knows the future. That's why Hale says she can't trust them anymore before writing them out of the script. Agree with both. I also think Hale is from the future. Or knows of it. I think they are all trapped in some kind of big war. It's because Enoch said he has been send back 30.000 years ago to observe the evolution of mankind. OTherwise I would think he has been stuck in the loop for 30.000 years  (for the Americans and Brits among us, that means 30,000 years ) If Robin's "visions" are of only her lifetime, what were the two drawings of the Zephyr in space that she tries to remind May of twice? (I assume it was the Zephyr, anyway.) Well, I hope she told May before she died... It wondered about that too. Maybe they will fly the Zephyr again?? One last time? It's because of those rocks around it. Would also explain why May needs to know about. Since she is the pilot. Enoch could be the key that breaks the cycle. His involvement to stop the destruction is never seen by Robin because she didn't live through it. She died before the reality where Earth is not destroyed took place. What do you mean by this? That she died as we saw her doing or if she died before she would even have met Enoch? Or something else? What if the memories we're seeing from Robin (and I assume all the near future scenes are flashbacks from Robin) are indeed her reality without Enoch's involvement. We never do see him, nor is he even mentioned. I’ll keep it simple. If that’s the case than how, in these memories, can Fitz know about Voss having attempt to stop it? Fitz or anyone else in the team has met Voss yet. It’s these things, among many others, that makes no sense. It’s possible that they have learned all about it from Robin, but I don’t think so. Fitz also said that they have tried. Robin would have told them that in the future they have tried to stop it, when in this assumption they were never send to the future. And if they are from the future than Enoch is automatically involved, because he send them to the future. We still don't know the Lighthouse's origin. Considering Zeke found the Framework servers, I wonder if the place doesn't have an Aida smell to it. She did have an incredible amount of resources at her disposal... Somewhere else I had posted an idea I have for a while. What if they never came back from the Framework into their own universe. But in an alternative one: “Hell”. And that Coulson has the job to solve this with the GR? Think of time travel as similar to Schroedinger's cat: nothing IS until it's observed. That's why Fitz was wrong in Spacetime. When one looks back, all they see is THE past; therefore, the future must be fixed. However, that's not exactly the case. You CANNOT change the past (of a certain timeline) but the future is uncertain. The team's "past" will include them being taken at the diner, traveling to the future, returning to 2017/18 and doing whatever it is they end up doing. Robin of 2017/18 will have memories of all her pasts due to her "gift". Fitz was right in Spacetime. That was General Relativity. Schroedinger's cat is Quantum Theory. However, it still holds what Fitz said according to this theory. Because the future was observed and therefore can’t be changed. The whole point of Fitz is, is that there is only one timeline in one universe. This also holds true for Quantum Theory. To solve time-travel paradoxes the notion of parallel universes is introduced. And that is based on the same notion that at each moment infinite possibilities exist and that only one reality is left after it is observed. |
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Post by bigvanray on Jan 22, 2018 15:22:15 GMT
A bit of speculation about Flint: He has the ability not only to throw rocks with his mind but also to bind them together, like he did with the projectile he aimed at the Kree. My guess is he's the antiQuake. He will somehow keep the world from flying apart while Quake is doing whatever it is she needs to do with her power.
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Post by koos on Jan 22, 2018 15:33:16 GMT
A bit of speculation about Flint: He has the ability not only to throw rocks with his mind but also to bind them together, like he did with the projectile he aimed at the Kree. My guess is he's the antiQuake. He will somehow keep the world from flying apart while Quake is doing whatever it is she needs to do with her power. It's possible he can restore the earth. And with that the earth is restored and humanity is saved. Though, I do think they first need to get rid of the Gravitonium. It's still messing with the earth's gravitiy. Anyway, I think he is needed to put the pieces that Coulson needs to get together to have a whole monolith to travel back in time to. But perhaps it is both. |
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Post by bigvanray on Jan 22, 2018 15:37:56 GMT
I'm thinking he goes back in time with them and keeps the destruction of the Earth from happening.
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Post by ayanami on Jan 22, 2018 15:54:52 GMT
A bit of speculation about Flint: He has the ability not only to throw rocks with his mind but also to bind them together, like he did with the projectile he aimed at the Kree. My guess is he's the antiQuake. He will somehow keep the world from flying apart while Quake is doing whatever it is she needs to do with her power. Yep, I think you're spot on with that one. |
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Post by caseyrook AKA Mechelle on Jan 22, 2018 16:03:00 GMT
About that notebook: I have it in my headcanon that Coulson got rid of it in the time before he and May, Tess, Mack, and Elena were magnetized to those stairs in 5x03. Because you know that Grill would have searched all of them when Zev brought them back to Salvage. I have a hard time with Coulson getting rid of something he thinks is very important in Eps 1 through 3. Maybe it's still on the Lighthouse in his room, or in the trawler, but I can't believe it's gone... He *is* a spy. Maybe he committed the whole notebook to memory. |
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Post by koos on Jan 22, 2018 16:06:55 GMT
I'm thinking he goes back in time with them and keeps the destruction of the Earth from happening. Well, that's a big possibility. Especially, since Robin kept repeating Flint's name and moaning that no-one listens to her. It also makes sense in that the memories were from that Enoch never had intervened as in that there are only two time loops. One where they didn't go into the future and one where they do and bring back Flint. And no repetitions to finally get it right. Despite my objections, there is also another reason why that Twitter guy was right. Why would Fitz spend decades to design the time travel machine when he has seen the thing and probably its design as well? I think we are getting close to the what the hell is going on here, guys 😎 |
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(for the Americans and Brits among us, that means 30,000 years 
