|
|
Post by Jemma Simmons on Apr 4, 2018 1:46:56 GMT
Just finished watching 5.15 a bit ago (Thanks bigvanray for watching with me!)  I'm sure I'll have more to say in a bit, but it seems to me that the whole feeling of invincibility thing is really going to come back to bite everyone. I wonder if we've broken the loop yet? I'm leaning towards no, because everything still seems to be marching toward the Earth being destroyed. |
|
|
|
Post by Hari Seldon on Apr 4, 2018 4:15:02 GMT
Sorry I couldn't join in today's watch, but when I got home I was able to grab the chat: LiveChatS05E15.docx (23.7 KB) |
|
|
|
Post by caseyrook AKA Mechelle on Apr 4, 2018 14:33:46 GMT
Thinking about, it is very ironic, and unfortunate for Coulson, that Hale basically accused *Coulson* of being misogynistic.
Coulson is many things, but *that* isn't one of them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hari Seldon on Apr 4, 2018 14:52:20 GMT
Thinking about, it is very ironic, and unfortunate for Coulson, that Hale basically accused *Coulson* of being misogynistic. Coulson is many things, but *that* isn't one of them. Misandrists like Hale tend to accuse all men of misogyny. |
|
|
|
Post by caseyrook AKA Mechelle on Apr 4, 2018 15:30:41 GMT
Thinking about, it is very ironic, and unfortunate for Coulson, that Hale basically accused *Coulson* of being misogynistic. Coulson is many things, but *that* isn't one of them. Misandrists like Hale tend to accuse all men of misogyny. Hale should know that 9 times out of 10, *Coulson* is the damsel in distress. |
|
|
|
Post by FreeKresge on Apr 5, 2018 5:37:57 GMT
Deke is the proof they were in the future. Hale should suspect that, since it was one of her minions ran the DNA test. Hale knows that Deke is related to Fitz and Simmons, but a DNA test would likely show the degree of relatedness. A grandparent and a grandchild would share 1/4 of their genes, but so would other possibilities. For example, Simmons could be Deke's aunt on his father's side, and Fitz his uncle on his mother's side. For a skeptical person, this is a more likely scenario than time travel. Also, Hale has a tendency to state things that she knows are not true and that the person she is talking to would know is not true. For example, her insistence that Daisy shot Talbot when she knows better and has to know that Coulson knows better. |
|
|
|
Post by backroadjunkie on Apr 5, 2018 7:55:06 GMT
Deke is the proof they were in the future. Hale should suspect that, since it was one of her minions ran the DNA test. Hale knows that Deke is related to Fitz and Simmons, but a DNA test would likely show the degree of relatedness. A grandparent and a grandchild would share 1/4 of their genes, but so would other possibilities. For example, Simmons could be Deke's aunt on his father's side, and Fitz his uncle on his mother's side. For a skeptical person, this is a more likely scenario than time travel. You are ignoring the fact that Deke, Fitz and Simmons are all about the same age. There is also no evidence (that I remember anyway), that either Fitz or Simmons had any siblings, so they could be neither aunt nor uncle... |
|
|
|
Post by caseyrook AKA Mechelle on Apr 5, 2018 11:56:34 GMT
Misandrists like Hale tend to accuse all men of misogyny. Hale should know that 9 times out of 10, *Coulson* is the damsel in distress. And not only is he usually the damsel in distress, it has been *him* losing control of his emotions that have been responsible for f*cking over the whole team, because in his relationship, *he's* the emotional one. Just had to go back and add that. |
|
|
|
Post by haxemon on Apr 5, 2018 12:57:47 GMT
Hale knows that Deke is related to Fitz and Simmons, but a DNA test would likely show the degree of relatedness. A grandparent and a grandchild would share 1/4 of their genes, but so would other possibilities. For example, Simmons could be Deke's aunt on his father's side, and Fitz his uncle on his mother's side. For a skeptical person, this is a more likely scenario than time travel. Also, Hale has a tendency to state things that she knows are not true and that the person she is talking to would know is not true. For example, her insistence that Daisy shot Talbot when she knows better and has to know that Coulson knows better. THIS. For anyone that's done Ancestry or some other similar service you only get "degrees of separation". Of course one could wonder if Hale has access to better testing than we do. But in general it would show that Deke has 1/4 match to Fitz and 1/4 to Simmons. Which is still odd enough that further research could be warranted. He'd have to be 1st cousins with each of them but if Fitz and Simmons don't share any DNA then that would mean the matches come through marriage in some way. i.e. Fitz's grandfather and Simmon's grandmother had a kid outside of marriage who had Deke. |
|
|
|
Post by FreeKresge on Apr 5, 2018 16:10:37 GMT
Hale knows that Deke is related to Fitz and Simmons, but a DNA test would likely show the degree of relatedness. A grandparent and a grandchild would share 1/4 of their genes, but so would other possibilities. For example, Simmons could be Deke's aunt on his father's side, and Fitz his uncle on his mother's side. For a skeptical person, this is a more likely scenario than time travel. You are ignoring the fact that Deke, Fitz and Simmons are all about the same age. There is also no evidence (that I remember anyway), that either Fitz or Simmons had any siblings, so they could be neither aunt nor uncle... It is very possible that an aunt/uncle could be the same age as a nephew. For example, my niece has an aunt who is only 6 1/2 years older than her. With Simmons, there is no evidence in either direction on whether or not she has a sibling. For Fitz, the evidence suggests that he does not have one that he knows of. However, the evidence suggested that his father played no role in his life until the writers decided otherwise in the middle of the fourth season, so the writers can retcon an older sibling as well. We also do not know what Hale knows about Fitz and Simmons's families. Hale knows that Deke is related to Fitz and Simmons, but a DNA test would likely show the degree of relatedness. A grandparent and a grandchild would share 1/4 of their genes, but so would other possibilities. For example, Simmons could be Deke's aunt on his father's side, and Fitz his uncle on his mother's side. For a skeptical person, this is a more likely scenario than time travel. Also, Hale has a tendency to state things that she knows are not true and that the person she is talking to would know is not true. For example, her insistence that Daisy shot Talbot when she knows better and has to know that Coulson knows better. THIS. For anyone that's done Ancestry or some other similar service you only get "degrees of separation". Of course one could wonder if Hale has access to better testing than we do. But in general it would show that Deke has 1/4 match to Fitz and 1/4 to Simmons. Which is still odd enough that further research could be warranted. He'd have to be 1st cousins with each of them but if Fitz and Simmons don't share any DNA then that would mean the matches come through marriage in some way. i.e. Fitz's grandfather and Simmon's grandmother had a kid outside of marriage who had Deke. When I posted, I was thinking that there was no way using existing technology that Hale could have gotten anything more than crude DNA results as quickly as she did. Soon afterward, I realized that there was no way using existing technology that Hale could have gotten any results as quickly as she did. This means that, as you suggested, Hale must have access to more advanced testing than we do. She may have access to testing advanced enough to tell that Deke is Fitz and Simmons's grandson, but we cannot assume this. The idea of Fitz and Simmons being Deke's uncle and aunt is only one idea, and I did note that Fitz and Simmons would be on opposite sides of Deke's family. Your idea would work as well, but you would have to drop the "grand" and make it Fitz's father and Simmons's mother because a half-sibling would be a 1/4 match. For Hale, this comes down to Occam's razor, which is the idea that, if multiple theories explain the data, accept the simplest theory. The idea that Deke is Fitz and Simmons's nephew or half-brother is simpler than the idea of time travel. As long as Hale is not willing to trust what Coulson tells her, rejecting time travel is reasonable given the information she has. |
|
|
|
Post by haxemon on Apr 5, 2018 16:14:41 GMT
For Hale, this comes down to Occam's razor, which is the idea that, if multiple theories explain the data, accept the simplest theory. The idea that Deke is Fitz and Simmons's nephew or half-brother is simpler than the idea of time travel. As long as Hale is not willing to trust what Coulson tells her, rejecting time travel is reasonable given the information she has. Good points. I think it's possible Deke's lineage could be used to help prove Coulson's case if it comes to that. Though to what extent would depend on the tech of course. |
|
|
|
Post by Hari Seldon on Apr 6, 2018 1:36:10 GMT
It is very possible that an aunt/uncle could be the same age as a nephew. For example, my niece has an aunt who is only 6 1/2 years older than her. My wife is only 3 years younger than her mother's youngest sister. On top of that, the brother who is the next youngest sibling has a wife who is younger than us, so we're older than an aunt. Watch any of the modern crime shows and it's the same. CSI, NCIS, and other similar shows have DNA results coming back in an hour or two when it really takes close to a week. This has had repercussions in the court system causing juries on cases involving DNA evidence having to get a lecture before the trial begins about real science vs tv science. |
|
|
|
Post by FreeKresge on Apr 6, 2018 3:23:04 GMT
I think that it is great that the show is willing to invest this much time on the background on even supporting characters like Hale. Of course, it would be too much to ask for the series to provide much background about, say, Fitz or Simmons. We now probably have more background on Hale than we do about Coulson.
Hale's proposal that Hydra and S.H.I.E.L.D. unite was not nearly as original as she thought. They were united for decades, albeit without S.H.I.E.L.D.'s knowledge. It did not work out well for S.H.I.E.L.D.
If it was an open secret that Whitehall reversed the aging process, why did he bother with a pseudonym? It seems to me that being the protégé of Red Skull would have carried significant weight in Hydra.
Hale aspired to be an astronaut, but she may be very lucky that she was passed over. We learned in "4,722 Hours" what happens to Hydra astronauts. Initially, I was going to suggest that "4,722 Hours" might have been less painful for Fitz had Hale been sent to Maveth instead of Will, but I will not assume that the painful part of the episode would have been that different.
Between the dog murdering and the misogyny, this episode really pushed the idea that Hydra was evil. Was there a single person watching this episode who has not already figured this out?
This week's product placement brought to you by Cap'n Crunch.
Granted that Ruby was out of control, but trying to kill the team and cutting off Elena's arms will not convince Coulson to work with Hale, if that really is Hale's goal. Furthermore, Hale herself has to take responsibility for planting the bomb in the Kree beacon.
Hale wants to show that the earth is defended by superpowered individuals. I thought that Nick Fury already established that in The Avengers.
May thinks that Fitz could be used to fight Hydra. It seems to me that, as long as The Doctor is dominant, he would be more likely to try to take over Hydra for himself than to fight it. May using Fitz may work about as well as May using the Darkhold in the fourth season.
Wacky theory: Fitz will be the big bad of the season and will have to be killed in the end. To make it extra painful, Simmons will have to pull the trigger. Fortunately, this will save the earth from being destroyed and from being enslaved by the Confederacy. This means that Fitz will no longer be needed to save the team in 2091. The season (I hope the season rather than the series) will end with a call to Enoch to bring Fitz out of stasis early.
I like the idea of May being the one who most understood what Fitz is experiencing. She was the only other person in the Framework who was actively evil, at least for a time, rather than simply going along with evil.
Like many of you, I am not a fan of the invincible talk. The writers are not being subtle about this being a bad idea.
|
|
I'll be spending next weekend with some family I like and trying to avoid any remotely controversial conversations with others that I spend the rest of the year avoiding 