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Post by Jemma Simmons on May 12, 2017 19:10:35 GMT
It makes some interesting points about trauma and its depiction on the show. Click click |
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Post by terminator22 on May 12, 2017 23:49:00 GMT
They are right about Simmons. She got over Maveth way too fast. At least Fitz takes time to recover from these tragedies.
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Post by DoTheMath on May 12, 2017 23:57:04 GMT
They are right about Simmons. She got over Maveth way too fast. At least Fitz takes time to recover from these tragedies. Well since she heals from a knife wound to the leg in about a week, I can understand how she physically healed so quickly after Maveth.  (can't wait to see how fast she heals from a gunshot wound to the other leg. Jemma Simmons should be in a wheelchair). At least they gave her Dr. Garner to help her get through her psychological trauma........ I only did a quick perusal of the article. I do think they made some good points, but was disappointed that they passed on this opportunity to applaud Ian's acting ability (unless they did and I missed it on my perusal). |
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Post by Jemma Simmons on May 13, 2017 0:01:09 GMT
They are right about Simmons. She got over Maveth way too fast. At least Fitz takes time to recover from these tragedies. Well since she heals from a knife wound to the leg in about a week, I can understand how she physically healed so quickly after Maveth. (can't wait to see how fast she heals from a gunshot wound to the other leg. Jemma Simmons should be in a wheelchair). At least they gave her Dr. Garner to help her get through her psychological trauma........ I only did a quick perusal of the article. I do think they made some good points, but was disappointed that they passed on this opportunity to applaud Ian's acting ability (unless they did and I missed it on my perusal). I wish they would have praised him for his handling of the role, too! I think they were more focused on how realistically portrayed they felt it was, which would have been a great opportunity for them to give credit where it was due. |
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Post by DoTheMath on May 13, 2017 0:26:58 GMT
Well since she heals from a knife wound to the leg in about a week, I can understand how she physically healed so quickly after Maveth. (can't wait to see how fast she heals from a gunshot wound to the other leg. Jemma Simmons should be in a wheelchair). At least they gave her Dr. Garner to help her get through her psychological trauma........ I only did a quick perusal of the article. I do think they made some good points, but was disappointed that they passed on this opportunity to applaud Ian's acting ability (unless they did and I missed it on my perusal). I wish they would have praised him for his handling of the role, too! I think they were more focused on how realistically portrayed they felt it was, which would have been a great opportunity for them to give credit where it was due. Yep. Both Ian and Elizabeth have been extraordinary; and Mallory...... well, she's taken it to a new level, IMO. Would be nice to see them get the props they deserve. |
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Post by caseyrook AKA Mechelle on May 13, 2017 2:05:27 GMT
This article lost me at, “Agents of SHIELD” Finally Gets Trauma Right, and Fitz Pays the Price", and at "Marvel’s Agents of SHIELD has been torturing characters ever since Fitzsimmons were thrown to the bottom of the ocean, and Skye found out her S.O. was Hydra."
First of all, MonkeysFightingRobots.com, 'Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.' has been torturing characters ever since Coulson was *actually* tortured and relived an excruciating surgery where his brain was exposed.
Second of all, the entire first season was dedicated to Coulson being traumatized from you know, his *death*. Even when he didn't know the truth he still showed symptoms of trauma and he wasn't quite right. I sure as hell don't believe he's over it *now*.
Also, "May saw her ex-husband murdered only to turn around and casually hit on Coulson" is the most egregious statement I've read in article about AoS in a really long time.
Finally, there were months between season two and three and no, Coulson was not over his lost hand quickly. We see him struggle with it for sometime (and he still has phantom pain even now!)
I do agree that Simmons got over Maveth to easily, though (and Fitz got over his brain damage too quickly as well).
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Post by FreeKresge on May 13, 2017 5:57:53 GMT
I will defend the writers when it came to Simmons and her recovery from her Maveth vacation. I admit that most of this became clear only after I rewatched the first half of season 3 on syndication. One of my favorite scenes from episode 3.05 ("4,722 Hours") was the beginning of the last act. We see her put on her necklace with a smile on her face with the camera then panning to the two cots side-by-side. Without a single word of dialogue, we get the following information. She (or Will according to a deleted scene) recovered the necklace. It is no longer being used as a guide for a rescue party. She has moved on from trying to be rescued. Second, she is content, even happy, at this prospect. Finally, this is because she and Will are now a couple. She had recovered from her trauma already over the 6.5 months she spent on Maveth before Fitz rescued her. There was no PTSD. When she returned to earth, she did have issues. First, she needed to make a physical adjustment to earth atmosphere and gravity after becoming accustomed to a different atmosphere and higher gravity. Second, she had become used to being in an environment with a low amount of stimulation, so she had to adjust to the higher stimulation of the Playground. She got over these rather quickly. The issues that persisted were purely psychological. At the time, Fitz was simply a close friend and colleague. They had discussed possibly going on a date, but that is far from being in a committed relationship. However, Fitz might reasonably feel that he was at least first in line, and the fact that Simmons was romantically and sexually involved with another man would still hurt Fitz. I think that she was primarily traumatized by guilt. Episode 3.05 was Simmons confessing everything to Fitz. When Fitz accepted her confession without blame and agreed to help recover Will, her guilt was relieved. This is why she showed little trauma afterward. I do believe that her current trauma has been glossed over. In the course of about a week and a half, she expereinced the following: - An entity with the face, voice, memory, and mannerisms of Fitz stabed her in the leg and bashed her face with a paint can all so it could imprison her in a fake reality
- She was forced to stab to "death" this entity with Fitz's face, voice, memory, mannerisms, etc.
- She had to dig herself out of a grave.
- She had to adjust to a completely new environment
- Hydra goons hunted her.
- She had to associate with Ward, who once tried to murder her and Fitz and then had her tortured.
- She saw Fitz murder an innocent woman.
- Mace died, on Fitz's orders (I do not remember if she knows the latter part).
- Alastair Fitz attacked her.
- Fitz shot her in the leg and threatened to kill her while insisting that she meant nothing to him.
After all this, she was reduced to simply being a jealous woman who was worried that her boyfriend might love someone else. Why is she not affected by the events above? |
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Post by koos on May 13, 2017 7:01:15 GMT
I will defend the writers when it came to Simmons and her recovery from her Maveth vacation. I admit that most of this became clear only after I rewatched the first half of season 3 on syndication. One of my favorite scenes from episode 3.05 ("4,722 Hours") was the beginning of the last act. We see her put on her necklace with a smile on her face with the camera then panning to the two cots side-by-side. Without a single word of dialogue, we get the following information. She (or Will according to a deleted scene) recovered the necklace. It is no longer being used as a guide for a rescue party. She has moved on from trying to be rescued. Second, she is content, even happy, at this prospect. Finally, this is because she and Will are now a couple. She had recovered from her trauma already over the 6.5 months she spent on Maveth before Fitz rescued her. There was no PTSD. When she returned to earth, she did have issues. First, she needed to make a physical adjustment to earth atmosphere and gravity after becoming accustomed to a different atmosphere and higher gravity. Second, she had become used to being in an environment with a low amount of stimulation, so she had to adjust to the higher stimulation of the Playground. She got over these rather quickly. The issues that persisted were purely psychological. At the time, Fitz was simply a close friend and colleague. They had discussed possibly going on a date, but that is far from being in a committed relationship. However, Fitz might reasonably feel that he was at least first in line, and the fact that Simmons was romantically and sexually involved with another man would still hurt Fitz. I think that she was primarily traumatized by guilt. Episode 3.05 was Simmons confessing everything to Fitz. When Fitz accepted her confession without blame and agreed to help recover Will, her guilt was relieved. This is why she showed little trauma afterward. I do believe that her current trauma has been glossed over. In the course of about a week and a half, she expereinced the following: - An entity with the face, voice, memory, and mannerisms of Fitz stabed her in the leg and bashed her face with a paint can all so it could imprison her in a fake reality
- She was forced to stab to "death" this entity with Fitz's face, voice, memory, mannerisms, etc.
- She had to dig herself out of a grave.
- She had to adjust to a completely new environment
- Hydra goons hunted her.
- She had to associate with Ward, who once tried to murder her and Fitz and then had her tortured.
- She saw Fitz murder an innocent woman.
- Mace died, on Fitz's orders (I do not remember if she knows the latter part).
- Alastair Fitz attacked her.
- Fitz shot her in the leg and threatened to kill her while insisting that she meant nothing to him.
After all this, she was reduced to simply being a jealous woman who was worried that her boyfriend might love someone else. Why is she not affected by the events above? It was quite an adventure, but she was driven by her love for Fitz. So, that drive continued after they came back out of the framework. I would say that Daisy had a tougher time with Fitz inside the framework. I would say her trauma would be bigger than Simmons. We did see a logical reaction from her by having her ICE him. There was some anger in there. That was okay for me. Because the adventure isn't over yet. Fitz also doesn't suffer much IMO. He has to deal with two lives on one and with the fact that there is potential for becoming a monster for him. And added to that with strong feelings of guilt. Especially that last one will be toughest, I would say. The whole team fought against one enemy and that enemy was him. I would have expected at least a half season to get over this, but again the adventure isn't finished yet. |
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Post by Jemma Simmons on May 13, 2017 13:36:54 GMT
I will defend the writers when it came to Simmons and her recovery from her Maveth vacation. I admit that most of this became clear only after I rewatched the first half of season 3 on syndication. One of my favorite scenes from episode 3.05 ("4,722 Hours") was the beginning of the last act. We see her put on her necklace with a smile on her face with the camera then panning to the two cots side-by-side. Without a single word of dialogue, we get the following information. She (or Will according to a deleted scene) recovered the necklace. It is no longer being used as a guide for a rescue party. She has moved on from trying to be rescued. Second, she is content, even happy, at this prospect. Finally, this is because she and Will are now a couple. She had recovered from her trauma already over the 6.5 months she spent on Maveth before Fitz rescued her. There was no PTSD. When she returned to earth, she did have issues. First, she needed to make a physical adjustment to earth atmosphere and gravity after becoming accustomed to a different atmosphere and higher gravity. Second, she had become used to being in an environment with a low amount of stimulation, so she had to adjust to the higher stimulation of the Playground. She got over these rather quickly. The issues that persisted were purely psychological. At the time, Fitz was simply a close friend and colleague. They had discussed possibly going on a date, but that is far from being in a committed relationship. However, Fitz might reasonably feel that he was at least first in line, and the fact that Simmons was romantically and sexually involved with another man would still hurt Fitz. I think that she was primarily traumatized by guilt. Episode 3.05 was Simmons confessing everything to Fitz. When Fitz accepted her confession without blame and agreed to help recover Will, her guilt was relieved. This is why she showed little trauma afterward. I do believe that her current trauma has been glossed over. In the course of about a week and a half, she expereinced the following: - An entity with the face, voice, memory, and mannerisms of Fitz stabed her in the leg and bashed her face with a paint can all so it could imprison her in a fake reality
- She was forced to stab to "death" this entity with Fitz's face, voice, memory, mannerisms, etc.
- She had to dig herself out of a grave.
- She had to adjust to a completely new environment
- Hydra goons hunted her.
- She had to associate with Ward, who once tried to murder her and Fitz and then had her tortured.
- She saw Fitz murder an innocent woman.
- Mace died, on Fitz's orders (I do not remember if she knows the latter part).
- Alastair Fitz attacked her.
- Fitz shot her in the leg and threatened to kill her while insisting that she meant nothing to him.
After all this, she was reduced to simply being a jealous woman who was worried that her boyfriend might love someone else. Why is she not affected by the events above? It was quite an adventure, but she was driven by her love for Fitz. So, that drive continued after they came back out of the framework. I would say that Daisy had a tougher time with Fitz inside the framework. I would say her trauma would be bigger than Simmons. We did see a logical reaction from her by having her ICE him. There was some anger in there. That was okay for me. Because the adventure isn't over yet. Fitz also doesn't suffer much IMO. He has to deal with two lives on one and with the fact that there is potential for becoming a monster for him. And added to that with strong feelings of guilt. Especially that last one will be toughest, I would say. The whole team fought against one enemy and that enemy was him. I would have expected at least a half season to get over this, but again the adventure isn't finished yet.I strongly suspect that this is something that Fitz and the team will still be struggling with next season. |
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Post by koos on May 13, 2017 15:44:01 GMT
I strongly suspect that this is something that Fitz and the team will still be struggling with next season. I hope so, because this shouldn't be finished yet. |
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Post by FreeKresge on May 14, 2017 5:33:59 GMT
It was quite an adventure, but she was driven by her love for Fitz. So, that drive continued after they came back out of the framework. I would say that Daisy had a tougher time with Fitz inside the framework. I would say her trauma would be bigger than Simmons. We did see a logical reaction from her by having her ICE him. There was some anger in there. That was okay for me. Because the adventure isn't over yet. Fitz also doesn't suffer much IMO. He has to deal with two lives on one and with the fact that there is potential for becoming a monster for him. And added to that with strong feelings of guilt. Especially that last one will be toughest, I would say. The whole team fought against one enemy and that enemy was him. I would have expected at least a half season to get over this, but again the adventure isn't finished yet. I focused on Simmons because I had commented on her time on Maveth. If I were Talbot, and if I knew what I know as a viewer, I would have had psychologists prepared to treat everyone who was in the Framework, and I would have Fitz on suicide watch. There is plenty of trauma to go around. I was not necessarily looking for Simmons to be angry with Fitz. My concern is that her reaction was reduced to simple jealousy when I would expect her to have mixed and far more complicated emotions. I would understand if others were upset at Fitz as well. After all, this is the second season in a row in which he played a major role in creating the big bad. In the third season, he allowed Hydra to capture him easily, and after giving in to torture, he went on the expedition that brought Hive to earth. In fact, if Fitz had not been so obsessive about finding Simmons, Will would be alive and living a happy domestic life with Simmons, although Fitz had no reason to know that. In this season, he played a major role in developing LMDs and the Framework in addition to being a major villain inside the Framework. He might have to consider a new profession. I agree that we need a lot more than two episodes to deal with the consequences. I hope that the fifth season takes place soon after the fourth season ends (rather than the usual six months later) so that we can see the characters deal with the consequences. |
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Post by koos on May 15, 2017 6:55:25 GMT
It was quite an adventure, but she was driven by her love for Fitz. So, that drive continued after they came back out of the framework. I would say that Daisy had a tougher time with Fitz inside the framework. I would say her trauma would be bigger than Simmons. We did see a logical reaction from her by having her ICE him. There was some anger in there. That was okay for me. Because the adventure isn't over yet. Fitz also doesn't suffer much IMO. He has to deal with two lives on one and with the fact that there is potential for becoming a monster for him. And added to that with strong feelings of guilt. Especially that last one will be toughest, I would say. The whole team fought against one enemy and that enemy was him. I would have expected at least a half season to get over this, but again the adventure isn't finished yet. I focused on Simmons because I had commented on her time on Maveth. If I were Talbot, and if I knew what I know as a viewer, I would have had psychologists prepared to treat everyone who was in the Framework, and I would have Fitz on suicide watch. There is plenty of trauma to go around. I was not necessarily looking for Simmons to be angry with Fitz. My concern is that her reaction was reduced to simple jealousy when I would expect her to have mixed and far more complicated emotions. I would understand if others were upset at Fitz as well. After all, this is the second season in a row in which he played a major role in creating the big bad. In the third season, he allowed Hydra to capture him easily, and after giving in to torture, he went on the expedition that brought Hive to earth. In fact, if Fitz had not been so obsessive about finding Simmons, Will would be alive and living a happy domestic life with Simmons, although Fitz had no reason to know that. In this season, he played a major role in developing LMDs and the Framework in addition to being a major villain inside the Framework. He might have to consider a new profession. I agree that we need a lot more than two episodes to deal with the consequences. I hope that the fifth season takes place soon after the fourth season ends (rather than the usual six months later) so that we can see the characters deal with the consequences. Maveth and the framework I woulod like to see as two separate incidents. I was mostly reacting to this quote: "she was reduced to simply being a jealous woman". And this light Simmons is far from unique. It is is my biggest critism of the whole show. Pretty much all motivations are fuelled by romance in this show. Hell, AIDA becomes a mass murdering bitch within a blink of an etye because FItz rejected her. but in this particular case I thought it was okay. Because, she in a relationship with Fitz and everything she did in the framework, all the suffering, was meant to get him back. And in addition to this she did show worry for his dark side. And i didn't think her suffering was big enought to have a PTSD. This is something they should have shown with her after Maveth, with that I strongly agree. And not the romantic bullsugar honey ice and tea with Will. Which, pretty much destroyed the whole arc with her, to me. |
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Post by terminator22 on May 15, 2017 12:39:41 GMT
This is something they should have shown with her after Maveth, with that I strongly agree. And not the romantic bullsugar honey ice and tea with Will. Which, pretty much destroyed the whole arc with her, to me. Agreed! |
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(can't wait to see how fast she heals from a gunshot wound to the other leg. 
I'll be spending next weekend with some family I like and trying to avoid any remotely controversial conversations with others that I spend the rest of the year avoiding 