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Post by TommyWizard on Mar 25, 2017 1:33:03 GMT
It's like the showrunners are running in circle, it's not new and it's started one or even maybe two seasons ago but it's the pinnacle!
Oliver always had a dark side, no news, but he tried to get better despite some big holes in the writting (like the killing rule).
It's like everything he's done worth jack SH*t now? I don't understand why they went down that road, Adrian could replace Oliver at this point...
I want to know HOW they'll make Oliver overcome this, i guess it will be dumb.
One thing i can say that vouch for Oliver, he would have been impossible for him to repel Damian's magic with his inner light if he was JUST a "cold murderous monster"
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Post by polgara on Mar 25, 2017 2:43:36 GMT
I agree! I really think this episode sucked. In fact the whole season has seemed like a slap in the face to the viewers who enjoyed this show in the first season. I mean if Oliver was such an awful person we should never have been rooting for him. We worked through the whole issue of him being a vigilante because the people he was fighting were so much worse. The only line in the entire episode that rang true was when Oliver said that those he killed were not victims. And don't get me started on the stupidity of bringing in a character to teach him to be "The Hood" just so that character can then hate him for doing what she taught him to do. It's like the writers want Oliver to hate himself and for the viewers to hate him too.
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Post by ayanami on Mar 27, 2017 21:58:49 GMT
I finally got around to watching the episode and I have to say that I liked it as a whole, although it absolutely does bring up some rather questionable things. First of all, I really enjoyed the focus on Oliver and Adrian in the present segment. I've never cared much about the team - no matter the composition - in the first place, so leaving them out for one episode was really an interesting experience. I also have to admit once again how much I like Adrian. Ohhh, how clever he was here! That trick with Evelyn?! Kudos, dude, I did not see that coming! For a moment I did think it was a bit weird that they had apparently had a falling out, but both characters really sold the whole thing so well I didn't suspect anything. I do, however, kinda feel like patting myself on the back on another issue, because "I like killing!" was literally the very first thing on my mind when Adrian asked for Oliver's secret. Proves just how much the show has in fact gone in circles over the past few years, that they keep dragging that same issue up over and over again. The flashback scenes were really... drastic in that regard. Who knew Oliver took an internship with Ramsay Bolton at some point? I do have to sorta disagree with polgara here, though, because while Oliver's actions here do seem more horrible than in the first season (not so much the killing, but definitely the torture), they really managed to take me back to that time and my opinion of the character back then. It's been a few years by now, but I still distinctly remember that when I started watching Arrow, my impression of Oliver over the first few weeks (if not most of the first season) was precisely "why the hell am I supposed to be rooting for this guy?". S1 Oliver was killing bad guys left and right, without any distinction. He didn't care if someone was merely a guard or the crime boss in charge of whole operations. Even when he finally did consider the idea of not killing his opponents, he would still slaughter his way past ten security guys, only to then face a moral struggle when it was time to take out the real villain. It was so stupid and horrible that it was almost hilarious! My point is, S1 Oliver Queen was not a good guy, not by any standards, and while I'm willing to put that aside to enjoy a (mostly) decent story and some cool fight scenes, I actually think it's a good thing that other characters are not ignoring it any longer.
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Post by polgara on Mar 28, 2017 2:31:52 GMT
I guess another part of my problem with whole story is Adrian. He doesn't exactly have the high moral ground here. How exactly does the whole I'll make you regret being bad by being worse than you thing work? If Adrian's motivation is "you killed my father, prepare to die." then let him be Inigo Montoya and train to defeat Oliver instead of turning into a psycho. He was just so freaking smug in this episode, like he hadn't just killed his own wife. If the writers had really wanted to make this interesting they would have made Adrian everything Oliver wanted to be and never was. Have Adrian fight the bad guys in the right way and have Oliver confront his darkness that way. Of course now I'm guilty of doing what I dislike others doing which is wanting the show that is in my head rather than the one on the screen.
On a different note have you seen that Black Siren is going to be full time character next season?
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Post by ayanami on Mar 28, 2017 2:59:25 GMT
I guess another part of my problem with whole story is Adrian. He doesn't exactly have the high moral ground here. How exactly does the whole I'll make you regret being bad by being worse than you thing work? If Adrian's motivation is "you killed my father, prepare to die." then let him be Inigo Montoya and train to defeat Oliver instead of turning into a psycho. He was just so freaking smug in this episode, like he hadn't just killed his own wife. If the writers had really wanted to make this interesting they would have made Adrian everything Oliver wanted to be and never was. Have Adrian fight the bad guys in the right way and have Oliver confront his darkness that way. Of course now I'm guilty of doing what I dislike others doing which is wanting the show that is in my head rather than the one on the screen. On a different note have you seen that Black Siren is going to be full time character next season? Really? No, I didn't know, as I don't follow that fandom at all. I used to look into the imdb board every now and again, but since that's gone, I haven't had the urge to find another source for information. That's really cool, though. I always liked Laurel and I've adored Katie since her time on Supernatural, so it's great to have her back. I do have the feeling, though, that they're trying to give Quentin another heart attack! As for the current plot, I agree that making Adrian less of a psycho would have even increased the point he is trying to make, but then again, he's still the villain and Oliver is still supposed to be the hero, no matter how messed up he is/was. So unless they were planning on renaming the show "Prometheus" next season, they still had to make some distinction here. I guess adding just a slight touch of insanity was the easiest way to have Adrian be able to justify his own action to himself. How else could he live with killing his wife, or even killing Felicity's new boyfriend only to hurt Oliver? I think we already talked about how similar his motives are to Slade, right? Blaming Oliver for his actions, but wanting to make all the people in his life pay for that. It certainly does sound familiar.
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Post by polgara on Mar 28, 2017 4:15:42 GMT
It does seem like Slade 2.0 and since I would really like to see Manu Bennett again they should have brought Slade back.
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Post by polgara on Mar 30, 2017 1:11:31 GMT
Everyone needs a friend like John Diggle! That one speech made up for all of last weeks crap.
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