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Post by ayanami on Jun 23, 2020 19:06:26 GMT
Now, I think I've been quite vocal over the last two years in regards to what I think of Mack's appointment as Shield's new director. Frankly, I think it sucks. Not only was his last-minute appointment by Skye - who had just proven how terrible her decision making is - and impromptu vote kinda laughable, he also has zero qualifications for the position. - Mechanic - Double agent who spied on his own people - Skye's backup who punched people first and asked questions later I'm still wondering which part of that was screaming "leadership material" in Skye's (or rather the writers') mind. Over time, we've talked about different characters who could (or should!) have taken the position of director instead. May seems the most obvious choice to me and I think the excuse give here, that she was too affected by Coulson's fate to do the job was pretty much total BS. Then there's Skye of course, but she's had her opportunity to take the lead and...yeah... she blew it. Sorry, Coulson, but your protégé is still years away from being fit to be the director of anything. Now who else is there? Fitz? Ehh... I don't know. Not only is he constantly MIA, but when he is there he's probably happier in a lab than being the one in charge. Plus, while I have no doubt that Fitz could run the place, I also don't want him to get all power-trippy and change the wall decour again! Simmons would probably be the better candidate here. Not only did she get some leadership experience under Director Mace in S4, but since the "significant amount of time" that has passed for her during the S6 finale, she has also matured quite a lot. Now, if she'd be willing to hang up the lab coat in favour of a pants suit, she'd probably make an a hundred times better leader than the current hack job. Then there's obviously LMD Coulson. Honestly, I think he'd (once again) excel at the job, but I'm also pretty sure he does NOT want it. Not only would he probably insist that a robot should not be in charge by default, but I also don't think he really wants to have that responsibility again. Which brings us to a potential new contestant for this category: Agent Sousa. Now, while I'm aware that Sousa would need a leeeeeeenghy update on what's been going on with Shield and the world as a whole in the 65 years he missed, personality- and qualification-wise he might just be the perfect candidate for the job. Not only does he have extensive leadership experience as the head of Shield's L.A. office, he's also a rational and calm person, sharing many similarities with Coulson in that regard. He's diplomatic and usually plays his cards pretty close to the vest, yet is a lot more savvy than people often give him credit for. Which is also rather similar to Coulson, only that with him, over the years people have actually picked up on just how cunning he can be! However, unlike Coulson, Sousa doesn't have any personal entanglements with the current team that could lead him to play favourites with any one of them, which is yet another point in his favour imo. So, yeah, those are my personal two cents on the matter. I guess at the end of the day I really just want Mack out of the director's seat, but regardless of that, I think Sousa would make a really good choice for the job either way. IF the character sticks around long enough for the issue to come up, that is. Thoughts?
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Post by DoTheMath on Jun 24, 2020 1:39:24 GMT
Interesting you allow one time traveler on your list, but the one from the future would have to be relegated to "other"............... As it stands, now, Simmons is my pick. She's got the coolest head and has the most knowledge of the mission. I mean, let's face it, she's the one calling the shots now, anyway. Mack is more like a field commander while Jemma is running HQ. I wouldn't completely ignore Deke. He's come a long way and has shown adaptability as he learns what it means to be an agent. Granted he's got a way to go and his tactical skills leave a lot to be desired, but I'd rather have him in charge than Daisy....... so since Chroulson is out, does that disqualify Enoch as well?[spolier/]
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Post by ayanami on Jun 24, 2020 2:16:01 GMT
Interesting you allow one time traveler on your list, but the one from the future would have to be relegated to "other"............... As it stands, now, Simmons is my pick. She's got the coolest head and has the most knowledge of the mission. I mean, let's face it, she's the one calling the shots now, anyway. Mack is more like a field commander while Jemma is running HQ. I wouldn't completely ignore Deke. He's come a long way and has shown adaptability as he learns what it means to be an agent. Granted he's got a way to go and his tactical skills leave a lot to be desired, but I'd rather have him in charge than Daisy....... so since Chroulson is out, does that disqualify Enoch as well?[spolier/] Well, I thought about basically adding any main character to the poll, but then decided against it for the sake of brevity. Sure, Deke knows how to play the long game and he can lead a tech company, but I just can't see him in charge of a spy agency, responsible for people's lives, etc. Like you said, his tactical skills are lacking and honestly, I think he is often just too... all over the place, to actually be a realistic choice. As far as Enoch is concerned, just... no! First of all, his character is originally a Watcher, even though he now has decided to actively lend aid. Doesn't mean he would actually want to be in charge. Also, after seeing his and Fitz's adventures last season, especially in "Fear and Loathing on the Planet of Kitson" the mere thought of putting him in charge of a spy organisation frightens me! As Hunter once put it so eloquently: "Deception is her forte. [...] It's a good attribute for a spy to..." Well, Enoch does NOT have that! And lastly, I wasn't really thinking about the current mission in particular, but rather about Shield going forward from here. You're absolutely right that Simmons would be the only reasonable choice for the current situation. Which is also what would disqualify Sousa off the bat. He has zero knowledge about Chronicoms and there is just no time for him to catch up to even general Shield history, let alone the intricacies of alien species. (Unless they manage to work in some "significant amount of time" again at some point, just for his sake! )
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Post by DoTheMath on Jun 24, 2020 2:37:35 GMT
Interesting you allow one time traveler on your list, but the one from the future would have to be relegated to "other"............... As it stands, now, Simmons is my pick. She's got the coolest head and has the most knowledge of the mission. I mean, let's face it, she's the one calling the shots now, anyway. Mack is more like a field commander while Jemma is running HQ. I wouldn't completely ignore Deke. He's come a long way and has shown adaptability as he learns what it means to be an agent. Granted he's got a way to go and his tactical skills leave a lot to be desired, but I'd rather have him in charge than Daisy....... so since Chroulson is out, does that disqualify Enoch as well?[spolier/] Well, I thought about basically adding any main character to the poll, but then decided against it for the sake of brevity. Sure, Deke knows how to play the long game and he can lead a tech company, but I just can't see him in charge of a spy agency, responsible for people's lives, etc. Like you said, his tactical skills are lacking and honestly, I think he is often just too... all over the place, to actually be a realistic choice. As far as Enoch is concerned, just... no! First of all, his character is originally a Watcher, even though he now has decided to actively lend aid. Doesn't mean he would actually want to be in charge. Also, after seeing his and Fitz's adventures last season, especially in "Fear and Loathing on the Planet of Kitson" the mere thought of putting him in charge of a spy organisation frightens me! As Hunter once put it so eloquently: "Deception is her forte. [...] It's a good attribute for a spy to..." Well, Enoch does NOT have that! And lastly, I wasn't really thinking about the current mission in particular, but rather about Shield going forward from here. You're absolutely right that Simmons would be the only reasonable choice for the current situation. Which is also what would disqualify Sousa off the bat. He has zero knowledge about Chronicoms and there is just no time for him to catch up to even general Shield history, let alone the intricacies of alien species. (Unless they manage to work in some "significant amount of time" again at some point, just for his sake! ) All cogent arguments; and, to be honest - going forward - I'd rather not see any of them in charge. FitzSimmons need to take over Deke's company. Yo-Yo and Mack need to get out of the spy game. Go build a life together somewhere and leave SHIELD in their rear view Daisy could join professional wrestling Deke should take over a late night talk show May should become an Avenger and replace Black Widow Coulson decommisioned Enoch should join Coulson Soussa should bcome a NYC cop in 2012 (after a trip to T.A.H.I.T.I.) S.H.I.E.L.D. needs to evolve into S.W.O.R.D. ALso: Let's be honest, you're dislike for Mack goes back farther than the last couple of seasons. I remember us discussing it back on IMDb way before the exodus.
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Post by ayanami on Jun 24, 2020 3:20:27 GMT
Well, I thought about basically adding any main character to the poll, but then decided against it for the sake of brevity. Sure, Deke knows how to play the long game and he can lead a tech company, but I just can't see him in charge of a spy agency, responsible for people's lives, etc. Like you said, his tactical skills are lacking and honestly, I think he is often just too... all over the place, to actually be a realistic choice. As far as Enoch is concerned, just... no! First of all, his character is originally a Watcher, even though he now has decided to actively lend aid. Doesn't mean he would actually want to be in charge. Also, after seeing his and Fitz's adventures last season, especially in "Fear and Loathing on the Planet of Kitson" the mere thought of putting him in charge of a spy organisation frightens me! As Hunter once put it so eloquently: "Deception is her forte. [...] It's a good attribute for a spy to..." Well, Enoch does NOT have that! And lastly, I wasn't really thinking about the current mission in particular, but rather about Shield going forward from here. You're absolutely right that Simmons would be the only reasonable choice for the current situation. Which is also what would disqualify Sousa off the bat. He has zero knowledge about Chronicoms and there is just no time for him to catch up to even general Shield history, let alone the intricacies of alien species. (Unless they manage to work in some "significant amount of time" again at some point, just for his sake! ) All cogent arguments; and, to be honest - going forward - I'd rather not see any of them in charge. FitzSimmons need to take over Deke's company. And live a non-Shield life where the universe does no longer conspire against them on a daily basis? Never! Yo-Yo and Mack need to get out of the spy game. Go build a life together somewhere and leave SHIELD in their rear view More like, Shield leaving THEM in the rear view. But I digress...Daisy could join professional wrestling Wow, okay, that one came out of left field. I'm fine with it, though, but only in that one reality where Spider-Man also decided to pursue a wrestling career after all. Deke should take over a late night talk show Yes, absolutely yes!! May should become an Avenger and replace Black Widow You don't like Skye, can that be? Because now you're just getting silly. Coulson decommisioned Nah, Coulson takes over Stan Lee's old job at the museum where they stored the Captain America stuff. Enoch should join Coulson Okay. Soussa should bcome a NYC cop in 2012 (after a trip to T.A.H.I.T.I.) No, he's an agent through and through. That was merely an undercover stint. S.H.I.E.L.D. needs to evolve into S.W.O.R.D. With Hunter and Bobbi returning to lead it! ALso: Let's be honest, you're dislike for Mack goes back farther than the last couple of seasons. I remember us discussing it back on IMDb way before the exodus. Never said it didn't. But back then he wasn't director, so at least I couldn't be upset about that part.
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Post by FreeKresge on Jun 25, 2020 4:58:55 GMT
Note that I am posting this before episode 7.05 airs in my time zone. The events in that episode may or may not affect my opinions below. I was planning to work on a couple of other projects, but, when I saw this thread yesterday, I knew that I was going to work on this response instead. I have also addressed this issue a few times. In fact, while going through my notes, I found an unposted draft of a very similar poll that I wrote between the fourth and fifth seasons. For what it is worth, Mack was not even one of the choices. I do not remember if this was because I had not gotten to him when I abandoned/forgot about the draft or if I was not even considering him as a candidate. I suspect that, at the time, I would have supported Talbot as the Director if he fully recovered from the assassination attempt at the end of the fourth season. Unfortunately, that is not an option today even if the show runners have hinted that we may not have seen the last of him. Here are my views of the candidates: MackI believe that Mack has shown leadership potential but, as I sometimes say, he seems to be more of a sergeant-type leader rather than a general-type leader. Others have described his ability as being more tactical rather than strategic, which is sort of the same thing. He can command a small group, but he does not seem like the sort of person who could lead a large organization. That is far too large a leap given his experience. Now that the Doctor is in Fitz, Mack may be the most moral of the characters, but it is a dogmatic morality. A Director needs to see greys. In his favor, he led a successful uprising against the Kree toward the middle of the fifth season. Thanks to his leadership, the Lighthouse denizens gained their freedom... at least until Taryan arrives to avenge his sons' deaths by wiping humans into extinction. I suspect that Mack did not think that far in advance. He also did a good job as acting Director in "Maveth," when he effected the rescue of Simmons, Fitz, and Coulson. MayIf Coulson is not to be Director, on account of his habit of dying, then May is the most obvious choice of the main characters. She has the most experience in S.H.I.E.L.D. and has worked by Coulson's side for a long time. All the other characters respect her and look up to her. She is not heartless. She cares about the people below her, but she also does not let her emotions interfere with doing the right thing. She might be the member of the team who would be best at making hard choices. Her main weakness is that she is more accustomed to being the person who does what is needed rather than being the person who can assign someone else with the duty of doing what is needed. LMD CoulsonAssuming that LMD Coulson is regular Coulson only with super strength, immunity to bullets, etc., he would be the most obvious choice of the regular characters. He has the most experience in S.H.I.E.L.D. He worked directly with Nick Fury and was groomed as a successor. He is charismatic enough to earn strong loyalty from his subordinates, including people like Mack and Morse who initially did not trust him. If S.H.I.E.L.D. ever deals with the Avengers again, he already knows some of them and has their trust. His main problem is that he sometimes lets his emotions get the best of him. To him, the needs of the few often outweigh the needs of the many, especially when the few happen to be his team. Even more especially when the few happen to be Daisy. DaisyMany people say that they see leadership potential in Daisy. I wish that they would say what exactly they see because I do not see any. She is not diplomatic. She is impulsive. She had a history of charging in to a situation without thinking. The people below her did not respect her, as Simmons's and Elena's mutiny showed. When Coulson named her to be his successor, her leadership experience consisted of a few months leading three people as part of the Secret Warriors. Of these three people, one quit, one died, and one took part in the mutiny. Like a few other people on this page, she is a bit too young to lead a large organization like S.H.I.E.L.D. and a bit too inexperienced to be a good insider candidate while being on the inside too much to be a good outsider candidate. The only thing that Daisy has going for her is blatant favoritism on the part of Coulson and of the writers. While Elena was not offered as a choice, I would say that she shares many of the same flaws that Daisy has, only without the experience of leading the Secret Warriors. FitzFitz has one advantage that many of the others do not have: he has experience at the top of a large organization. The problem is that that this experience was being at the top of a very evil organization in a virtual reality. It will be a tricky balancing act for him to draw upon the useful experience without the negative influences of being a leader of evil. If that part of Fitz were excised, then Fitz was arguably the most moral of the characters. Nearly all of the characters have killed people. Fitz is just about the only one who felt guilty afterwards. His problem was that he does not have a strong personality. He seemed to understand that Daisy was morally wrong when she violated civil rights to hunt down Watchdogs in "Watchdogs." He gave in to peer pressure and went with her anyway. In "T.A.H.I.T.I.," he participated in the Guesthouse raid, perhaps the most evil act committed by allegedly good characters who are not named Jemma Simmons. I question whether he would be capable of making the hard choices that a Director sometimes has to make. Also, his pre-Framework personality was far too emotionally dependent on Simmons for his own good. Finally, ever since the final scene of the second season, Fitz has caused about half of the major problems that the team had to deal with and played a negative role in a few more. The question is not whether he should be put in charge but whether he should have been fired a long time ago. My guess is that he is retained only to prevent him from doing what Deke did in the sixth season. SimmonsWhen this season is finished, I plan to look over Simmons's arc through all seven seasons of the show to answer the question of whether she is a generally good individual whose evil actions were out of character moments or if she is actually a despicable individual with any action that served the common good over her own interests being the out of character moments. Just about the only thing that I am sure of is that if she is intended to be a morally complex character, the writers are doing a very clumsy job. In the fourth season she became a high ranking official in S.H.I.E.L.D. for some unknown reason. By "Self Control," with Burrows dead and Mace and Coulson trapped in the Framework, she was probably the highest ranking member of S.H.I.E.L.D. who was not incapacitated. Her actions showed her to be completely unqualified for top leadership regardless of her moral character. She had a duty to lead S.H.I.E.L.D. Instead, she went into the Framework just to save her boyfriend. While there, she did not perform well. Daisy may have been able to do better working alone. Worst of all, she did not even bother to brief Talbot on what was going on. The need to do so was so obvious that I assumed that showing her doing so was not worth any screen time (or not worth paying Adrian Pasdar for an extra episode). Had she done so, the Zephyr could have parked on the ground at an air force base safe from any of Ivanov's jets. The Zephyr could then use all of its energy running just Daisy in the Framework without having to spend energy flying or being cloaked. If it needed more energy, Talbot could probably provide it. Talbot could have sent people into the Playground sooner to clean up the mess and treat the wounded. Also, if she were in charge, she would have to deal with a character mentioned above who has caused many of the worst problems that S.H.I.E.L.D. had to deal with. I do not trust Simmons to deal with that character objectively. SousaSousa is an interesting choice. I agree that he is capable, and it is likely that his experience running the Los Angeles office of S.H.I.E.L.D. would help. The problem was that, at least onscreen, he seemed to be little more than Peggy Carter's sidekick. His major flaw is the one that was noted in the original post: he needs to learn a lot to catch up with the 2020 version of S.H.I.E.L.D. This means that he probably cannot become Director right away but, after a few years, he might be a better choice than any of the individuals listed above. DekeDeke has some advantages. He is charismatic. He is smart. He is good at adapting to new situations, perhaps unrealistically good. He has a strategic mind. He may whine, but, in the end, he does the right thing. As to him not being tactical, it is the Director's job to be strategic. It is the job of the subordinates to be tactical. One problem is that he is learning to think of himself as being part of a team, but he is too used to looking out for himself first. This is not a good characteristic for the head of an organization. He also talks too much, which is not a good characteristic for the head of a spy organization. He inspired devotion from his employees, but I do not see him being able to do so with S.H.I.E.L.D. agents. EnochEnoch is a good person individual. He is very smart and appears to be the brains behind the current scheme to save earth from the Chronicoms. If S.H.I.E.L.D. is going to deal with more extra-terrestrial threats, it would help to have someone familiar with world beyond the solar system. One problem is that Enoch is not a people person individual. As noted in a post above, he is not skilled in "bluffing" or in detecting "bluffing." Also, he is betraying his fellow Chronicoms. A willingness to betray does not engender trust. L.T. KoenigIf the Director is to be someone we have seen before but not one of the regular characters, L.T. Koenig would be an interesting choice. She is a highly competent agent. She is tough and commands respect. She is apparently a third generation S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, which would be seen as an asset by those who would want an insider. However, Coulson seemed surprised to see that the mysterious "Gemini" was a Koenig, so I do not know how many people would know of her lineage. Complete OutsiderThere is one negative that I have not mentioned above because it applies to all the regular characters. S.H.I.E.L.D. was in a very poor condition when Nick Fury handed the Directorship to the team. Rather than rebuild the organization, they ended up running it into the ground. After the mess of the fourth season, it is not plausible for S.H.I.E.L.D. to exist in any capacity beyond a handful of vigilantes squatting in a long-forgotten base. If there is to be a S.H.I.E.L.D., it will have to undergo major reforms. I do not trust any insider to carry out these reforms especially one from the team that was at the top as S.H.I.E.L.D. finished its collapse. Also, some agencies need to have civilian leadership if liberties are to be preserved. If I were to create a list of the types of agencies that most need civilian leadership, law enforcement agencies, spy agencies, and the military would probably be at the top of the list. At various times, S.H.I.E.L.D. has acted as each of the three. With very rare exceptions on this show, S.H.I.E.L.D. does not act as if it is accountable to anyone. Even when someone (often Talbot or someone working through Talbot) attempts to hold S.H.I.E.L.D. accountable, the team works to undermine accountability. What S.H.I.E.L.D. needs is someone a bit stronger than Jeffrey Mace who is willing to listen to the team but is also willing to tell them that either they will follow the new Director or they can find employment elsewhere. ConclusionIf I had to rank the choices, they would be as follows: - An outsider (or L.T. Koenig)
- LMD Coulson
- May
- Are you sure that it cannot be an outsider (or L.T. Koenig)?
- If it has the be a regular character, why not Coulson?
- OK, if it is not an outsider or Coulson, are you sure that it cannot be May?
- Can it at least be an outsider, Coulson, or May until Sousa is ready to take over?
- Fine, let it be Mack.
- For the love of all that is holy, please not Daisy, Simmons, Fitz, Elena, or Deke.
- You actually think that it should be Daisy, Simmons, Fitz, Elena, or Deke? Piper would be better.
- Well, I suppose that Daisy, Simmons, Fitz, Elena, or Deke would be better than Snowflake.
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Post by ayanami on Jun 25, 2020 23:59:29 GMT
LMD CoulsonTo him, the needs of the few often outweigh the needs of the many, especially when the few happen to be his team. Even more especially when the few happen to be Daisy. Lol! That couldn't be more true! DaisyMany people say that they see leadership potential in Daisy. I wish that they would say what exactly they see because I do not see any. She is not diplomatic. She is impulsive. She had a history of charging in to a situation without thinking. The people below her did not respect her, as Simmons's and Elena's mutiny showed. When Coulson named her to be his successor, her leadership experience consisted of a few months leading three people as part of the Secret Warriors. Of these three people, one quit, one died, and one took part in the mutiny. Ouch!
Not really disagreeing with your assessment here, although I do understand a few of the things Coulson sees in her - and saw in her from the beginning. She's headstrong, likes to take charge, thinks outside the box and - what I think he really valued about her early on - she is compassionate. She actually relates to other people and tries to put herself in their shoes, which I think played out really beautifully in her scenes with Sousa in the latest episode. Of course this is also what often causes her to be impulsive, but I guess that might just be a question of finding the right balance.
Now, if any of those things really qualify Skye for a leadership position above the head of the Index Asset Evaluation and Intake program (a.k.a. The Welcome Wagon ) might be up for debate, but I think with further experience and a proper mentor she might just be good for a job at the top somewhere down the line. The only thing that Daisy has going for her is blatant favoritism on the part of Coulson and of the writers. Ironically, not always working out for the better for the character. FitzFinally, ever since the final scene of the second season, Fitz has caused about half of the major problems that the team had to deal with and played a negative role in a few more. The question is not whether he should be put in charge but whether he should have been fired a long time ago. Lol, are you ever going to give Fitz a break for that one? Honestly, if anyone is to blame here (except the stupid writers) it's Gonzales' team for securing the obilisk in the first place and Mack for being the one in charge of it at that particular point. I mean, seriously, an artifact so dangerous and mysterious that Fury put it on a boat in the middle of nowhere and was willing to rather sink that same boat with all the agents on it rather than have it fall into Hydra's hands. And yet, the only thing needed for actually accessing that artifact was for someone to slip on the fricking doorframe to accidentally open it?!? Gimme a break! SimmonsIn the fourth season she became a high ranking official in S.H.I.E.L.D. for some unknown reason. By "Self Control," with Burrows dead and Mace and Coulson trapped in the Framework, she was probably the highest ranking member of S.H.I.E.L.D. who was not incapacitated. Her actions showed her to be completely unqualified for top leadership regardless of her moral character. More like, her actions (and everyone else's) showed the writers to be completely unqualified for writing a consistent storyline, regardless of what it said in their contracts. SousaSousa is an interesting choice. I agree that he is capable, and it is likely that his experience running the Los Angeles office of S.H.I.E.L.D. would help. The problem was that, at least onscreen, he seemed to be little more than Peggy Carter's sidekick. His major flaw is the one that was noted in the original post: he needs to learn a lot to catch up with the 2020 version of S.H.I.E.L.D. This means that he probably cannot become Director right away but, after a few years, he might be a better choice than any of the individuals listed above. Honestly, episode 7x05 has only strengthened my belief that Sousa is the only valid candidate for the head of Shield in the long run (barring the possibility of a yet unknown outside contender. NOT a Koenig, please!!). It's like the other characters are all headless chicken, each of them running off in different directions, and who don't even remember what it means being an agent of SHIELD. Like you said, they're basically nothing but vigilantes now, and I guess if they want to stay that way, they might as well follow whomever they like. If they want to rebuilt an agency, though, that actually deserves that name - even be it very deep in the shadows, like Shield 2.0 was - why not put someone in charge who was there when the organisation was founded? And who does NOT take any of their crap when they're screwing up!DekeDeke has some advantages. He is charismatic. He is smart. He is good at adapting to new situations, perhaps unrealistically good. This actually brings me back to Skye. After all, she went from anarchic hacker, to spy, to warrior in basically no time at all. Surely there's at least a chance for her to actually develop into a good leader eventually. L.T. KoenigIf the Director is to be someone we have seen before but not one of the regular characters, L.T. Koenig would be an interesting choice. She is a highly competent agent. She is tough and commands respect. She is apparently a third generation S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, which would be seen as an asset by those who would want an insider. However, Coulson seemed surprised to see that the mysterious "Gemini" was a Koenig, so I do not know how many people would know of her lineage. I hate the Koenigs. "Hot Potatoe Soup" can go die in a fire, as far as I'm concerned. Right next to the episode with Mack and his stupid brother. So, no. ConclusionIf I had to rank the choices, they would be as follows: - An outsider (or L.T. Koenig)
- LMD Coulson
- May
- Are you sure that it cannot be an outsider (or L.T. Koenig)?
- If it has the be a regular character, why not Coulson?
- OK, if it is not an outsider or Coulson, are you sure that it cannot be May?
- Can it at least be an outsider, Coulson, or May until Sousa is ready to take over?
- Fine, let it be Mack.
- For the love of all that is holy, please not Daisy, Simmons, Fitz, Elena, or Deke.
- You actually think that it should be Daisy, Simmons, Fitz, Elena, or Deke? Piper would be better.
- Well, I suppose that Daisy, Simmons, Fitz, Elena, or Deke would be better than Snowflake.
ROFL Best. Conclusion. Ever!
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Post by Hari Seldon on Jun 26, 2020 3:51:05 GMT
I guess availability would be the main issue, but the obvious most qualified candidate for the boss would be:
Goose. 🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱
The single problem is that Goose's whereabouts are unknown since he didn't join in the fight against Thanos in Endgame.
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Post by FreeKresge on Jul 4, 2020 0:40:59 GMT
DaisyMany people say that they see leadership potential in Daisy. I wish that they would say what exactly they see because I do not see any. She is not diplomatic. She is impulsive. She had a history of charging in to a situation without thinking. The people below her did not respect her, as Simmons's and Elena's mutiny showed. When Coulson named her to be his successor, her leadership experience consisted of a few months leading three people as part of the Secret Warriors. Of these three people, one quit, one died, and one took part in the mutiny. Ouch!
Not really disagreeing with your assessment here, although I do understand a few of the things Coulson sees in her - and saw in her from the beginning. She's headstrong, likes to take charge, thinks outside the box and - what I think he really valued about her early on - she is compassionate. She actually relates to other people and tries to put herself in their shoes, which I think played out really beautifully in her scenes with Sousa in the latest episode. Of course this is also what often causes her to be impulsive, but I guess that might just be a question of finding the right balance.
Now, if any of those things really qualify Skye for a leadership position above the head of the Index Asset Evaluation and Intake program (a.k.a. The Welcome Wagon ) might be up for debate, but I think with further experience and a proper mentor she might just be good for a job at the top somewhere down the line. This is a good analysis and explains why Coulson wanted her on the team. Being headstrong has its advantages but, with Daisy, being headstrong often means being dogmatic. She is compassionate, but so is the rest of the team. For example, when Kasius asked Sinara what drew him to Simmons, Sinara answered with what I think was the very first word we heard her say, "Compassion." There is also the question of how important compassion is in an organization so authoritarian that they feel the need for a director even when there are only a handful of people. Thinking outside the box has its advantages, which is a reason why I would prefer an outside candidate. Its main disadvantage is that the rest of S.H.I.E.L.D. is the box. This is where the wrong outsider candidate (e.g., Jeffrey Mace) would get in trouble. Also, this is probably less true of Daisy now than in the first season. Daisy—along with Simmons, Fitz, Elena, and probably Deke by now—have all been part of S.H.I.E.L.D. for too long to have the advantages that an outsider would have while not having enough experience in S.H.I.E.L.D. to have the full advantages of an insider candidate. I like to praise Iain de Caestecker and am willing to criticize the writers. However, if I remember correctly, having Fitz fiddle with the latch was a de Caestecker ad lib. If this were Fitz's only failing, I would not even mention it. Instead, you are going to make me list Fitz's Record of Shame: I see the following as being the biggest problems that S.H.I.E.L.D. faced over the third through sixth seasons (in rough chronological order): - Simmons being trapped on Maveth
- Lash murdering Inhumans
- Yet another resurrection of Hydra
- Hive returning to earth and collaborating with Radcliffe to create alpha primitives
- Lucy and Eli Morrow fighting over the Darkhold
- The Watchdogs being @$$holes
- LMDs running amok
- The team getting trapped in the Framework
- Madame Hydra becoming Ophelia in the real world
- The team being dumped in 2091
- A couple of Hales pursuing the team
- A "fear dimension" opening up
- The Confederacy threatening to plunder earth
- Talbot becoming Graviton and going on a rampage
- Sarge's crew causing havoc
- Izel trying to turn the world into the Land of the Shrikes
- Chronicoms trying to take over the world
Here is how Fitz dealt with each of them: - He fiddled with a latch to the container holding the monolith, allowing it to transport Simmons to Maveth. He eventually brought her back through sheer recklessness.
- He had very little to do with the Lash arc other than squabble with Morse over bag color.
- He (and Simmons) let Hydra capture them without any attempt to escape or to destroy the valuable data they were carrying. While in custody, he gave into torture easily.
- He went on the mission that brought Hive to earth. He (and Simmons) also failed to bring Radcliffe to S.H.I.E.L.D. Fitz later vouched for Radcliffe, which allowed Radcliffe to evade responsibility for his actions serving Hive. On the plus side, Fitz at least took out Giyera.
- He did some investigating into Lucy and the ghosts, and he helped AIDA build the gizmo that trapped Eli Morrow.
- He was very helpful in battles against the Watchdogs in episodes like "Uprising" and "BOOM."
- He worked with Radcliffe to develop the LMD program, and he helped convince AIDA to read the Darkhold.
- He worked with Radcliffe to develop the Framework. While in the Framework, he constantly opposed the team and was the only member not to rebel against Hydra.
- Admittedly under severe mind control, he designed the gizmo that allowed Madame Hydra to become a real human in the real world with a wide variety of superpowers.
- He helped Simmons and Daisy escape from Kasius and hid useful weaponry for Mack and Elena to lead the rebellion. A different Fitz designed the machine that sent the team back to the present.
- Despite his best efforts, Fitz failed to provide any useful information to Hale other than giving her Radcliffe's base. Hale's mechs were based on Fitz's LMD technology.
- He failed to discover the trap that Hale set in the Kree beacon, which led to a portal opening to the "fear dimension." He eventually closed it.
- He did not play much of a role against the Confederacy.
- He did a pathetic job in destroying the key component of the "Destroyer of Worlds" chamber. He (and Simmons) repaired the chamber for Ruby Hale and failed to destroy the chamber after bringing it to the Lighthouse.
- By the time Fitz returned to the team, Sarge and his crew were already captured or dead.
- He (and Simmons) found a spaceship and crew for Izel. Fitz and Simmons then accompanied Izel to earth.
- The problem of Chronicoms trying to take over the earth is still ongoing. However, the Chronicoms greatly benefited from scanning Fitz's and Simmons's minds, which taught the Chronicoms how to overcome S.H.I.E.L.D.'s defenses and how to time travel.
In other words; through deliberate action, incompetence, weakness, or bad luck; he caused several of the biggest problems that S.H.I.E.L.D. faced (#1, 4, 7, 8, 9, 12, and 14), was a negative factor in four more (#3, 11, 16, and 17), and was minimally involved in solving another three (#2, 13, and 15). I see him as having a net positive role in dealing with only three of the biggest problems (#5, 6, and 10), with only a modestly positive role in the first. It has gotten to the point where it was becoming implausible that he had not been fired or at least dumped into a lab where he is allowed to create his admittedly very useful gadgets under close supervision with no chance of ever going out in the field. For some reason, this résumé does not strike me as being Director material. I cannot disagree with a word of this analysis. Also, while Simmons may be the person with the most knowledge of the current situation (not that she has been inclined to share), I think that this would be a particularly bad time for her (or Fitz) to be Director. The Chronicoms have a thorough scan of her mind. They know how she thinks and can probably anticipate her responses better than they can anyone else's, except for Fitz. They probably know everything that she hid in her metaphorical music box and can use that against her. I agree that he has a lot of potential. However, as you noted in the original post, he also has a lot of catching up to do. It is not as if he can read a textbook that covers the history of the world from 1955 to 2020 and be ready to lead S.H.I.E.L.D. It will take a while, and someone else would have to lead for that time. However, I agree that he has a lot of potential if he is able to acclimate to 2020. The team were vigilantes in the fifth season. However, without any explanation, they were legitimate by the beginning of the sixth season. They flew quinjets around with the ginormous eagle symbol on them and were back to having seemingly unlimited resources. What I do not understand is why the authority that made them legitimate accepted the impromptu vote by what were then vigilantes. My guess is that your analysis for Simmons might have a clue. There is a chance that Daisy could develop to be a good leader just as there is a possibility that Simmons, Fitz, Elena, Deke, Piper, Diaz, Benson, Flint, Snowflake, or random extra #3 could as well. We should wait for that to happen before considering them as candidates.
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Post by backroadjunkie on Jul 10, 2020 23:22:20 GMT
I voted for Sousa, but never posted why... First, S.H.I.E.L.D. needs to evolve into S.W.O.R.D. This. If Thanos doesn't provoke Earth into defense from extra-terrestrial threats, then it deserves to get blown apart by Talbot... We know SWORD is going to debut in WandaVision, it'll be interesting to see if it gets a larger role in the MCU. However, I still have questions. There must still be a larger organization that must be SHIELD. Keller and Fox (red shirts from last season) were both in SHIELD for a few years. Who manages that side of the organization? Our director always seems to be off gallivanting someplace. Also of question is whether they will follow the comic books and have SWORD be a division of SHIELD. Anyway, Sousa. Yeah, he's from 1955, but that doesn't mean he's useless. He's seen and experienced some incredible tech and information, but hasn't flinched beyond making a sarcastic remark or asking a question or two. He's dog loyal, and his foe (Hydra) has been eliminated. He's free to invest his time into another threat. He's already got clearance. Just because he's from 1955 doesn't mean he shouldn't see current intelligence. He's the invisible man. He's been dead for 65 years. He has no history. Well, yeah, he does, but any intelligence anyone has on him is old enough to collect social security. He's intelligent, hyper-aware, and takes risks to complete the mission. (I've said the following before, so yeah, I'm repeating myself from another thread.) Everyone on the Team has a role. Coulson is a leader. Daisy, Yo-Yo, May and Mack are field agents. Simmons and Fitz are technical problem solvers. Deke is comic relief, but is a competent field agent. Most any one of the above can fill and/or act for another, but is best at their primary role. So to me, none of the team, other than Coulson, is Director material. That's just not how the characters were written.
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Post by ayanami on Jul 10, 2020 23:30:22 GMT
I voted for Sousa, but never posted why... First, S.H.I.E.L.D. needs to evolve into S.W.O.R.D. This. If Thanos doesn't provoke Earth into defense from extra-terrestrial threats, then it deserves to get blown apart by Talbot... We know SWORD is going to debut in WandaVision, it'll be interesting to see if it gets a larger role in the MCU. Well, WE did not know that. Until now.
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Post by backroadjunkie on Jul 11, 2020 4:18:52 GMT
I voted for Sousa, but never posted why... First, This. If Thanos doesn't provoke Earth into defense from extra-terrestrial threats, then it deserves to get blown apart by Talbot... We know SWORD is going to debut in WandaVision, it'll be interesting to see if it gets a larger role in the MCU. Well, WE did not know that. Until now. Sorry about that.
It was in the Wandavision preview we got over a half-year ago. I even posted a picture isolating the SWORD logo, and nobody complained then...
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Post by FreeKresge on Jul 12, 2020 4:18:47 GMT
Everyone on the Team has a role. Coulson is a leader. Daisy, Yo-Yo, May and Mack are field agents. Simmons and Fitz are technical problem solvers. Deke is comic relief, but is a competent field agent. Most any one of the above can fill and/or act for another, but is best at their primary role. So to me, none of the team, other than Coulson, is Director material. That's just not how the characters were written. I agree. When I ranked my preferences in my first post in this thread, I originally planned to present a straight order. The problem was that by the time I reached Daisy, Simmons, Fitz, Elena, and Deke; they were all clearly unqualified, so I could not rank them. May's job is usually to be the field agent, but she has worked by Coulson's side for a long time so, of the characters other than Coulson, she would be best suited to move up to leader. Both Daisy and Mack started as technical problem solvers (Daisy was a computer hacker and Mack was a mechanic) but moved to field agents. If an insider is to be Director, having experience across domains is useful. Still, I agree that they are not written to be top leadership.
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