Post by haxemon on Nov 11, 2019 19:34:51 GMT
So curious to read what other folks think the "rules" are. Specifically talking about the conversation Banner has with the Ancient One.
I took that exchange to mean that removing an infinity stone would create an alternate timeline (one that's all black and spooky), not that any minor change would create a new timeline. Or if small changes did/do create alternate timelines that those ones are essentially fine. For example, Howard Stark meeting "Howard Potts" didn't happen in Tony's past before he was born, but in an alternate timeline that splintered off when Cap and Tony arrived back in the past after leaving 2012's own splintered timeline where Loki is free with the Tesseract etc. The timeline with the Stark/Potts meeting may even end up re-merging with the one we've been following. While the one with Loki on the loose probably never would. Then when Cap went back to that exact spot (where they left 2012) to return the mind stone to that timeline at the moment it left, he doesn't have to give the scepter to HYDRA or anything, he just needs the stone to exist in that timeline (or alternate universe). It's still an alternate timeline of course, but not a "broken" one. I actually wonder who Steve might trust with the stones. Would he maybe have given the Ancient one both of the 2012 stones? Or would he maybe try to hide the mind stone? I doubt he'd trust Fury with it. Maybe he entrusts it to the 2012 Thor?
So all this talk about Cap "putting the ether back into Jane" or even meeting up with Red Skull is unnecessary. I just took TAO's speech to mean that every reality/timeline/universe needs all 6 stones in it to keep things balanced etc. They can be anywhere really. So while I'm sure Cap might feel something where he feels he should minimize any changes etc., they've already made changes simply by showing up. There's no going back really.* (see more on that thought below). The same can be said about the 'two caps' debate. If we've been watching the timeline all along where Cap was living out his life with Peggy and also frozen in ice somewhere, so be it. That timeline clearly exists somewhere. Cap is maybe the only character with the resolve to actually sit back and not interfere. It would be a nice callback to his exchange with Tony in Civil War actually "sometimes I wish I could". Maybe the Cap that went back after Endgame had seen/learned enough to realize there are some times where you should actually stand by if you see something headed south. He might believe that finding/saving Bucky in the 40s is actually selfish and could have a negative impact on other things indirectly. Bucky wouldn't have been around for the events of Endgame for example. Given that Strange saw 14 million futures and only 1 where they 'won', Cap might not even be inclined to try and stop the snap/blip for fear that it would be impossible and letting things play out to get to the 1 in 14 million future was the only way to go.
* The only way I can think of where Cap could somehow prevent any splits at all, would be to literally meet everyone the second they arrive in the past and simply hand them the stones. Though that would get awkward with Natasha since Cap would have to tell her she can't go back. And she can't really sacrifice herself for the soul stone again either since in order to preserver that timeline it has to stay where it is (presumably until Thanos and Gamora show up years later). And of course while this might preserve the 5 timelines that got messed up, it actually would mess up the 1 where the Avengers "win". i.e. would Tony make the same decision if he hadn't had that conversation with his father? Would Cap and Tony have worked together as well in the final Endgame battle if they hadn't bonded over their side trip? Would Clint have been the same if instead of Nat sacrificing herself she's told to stay back in the past by some future version of Cap?
I took that exchange to mean that removing an infinity stone would create an alternate timeline (one that's all black and spooky), not that any minor change would create a new timeline. Or if small changes did/do create alternate timelines that those ones are essentially fine. For example, Howard Stark meeting "Howard Potts" didn't happen in Tony's past before he was born, but in an alternate timeline that splintered off when Cap and Tony arrived back in the past after leaving 2012's own splintered timeline where Loki is free with the Tesseract etc. The timeline with the Stark/Potts meeting may even end up re-merging with the one we've been following. While the one with Loki on the loose probably never would. Then when Cap went back to that exact spot (where they left 2012) to return the mind stone to that timeline at the moment it left, he doesn't have to give the scepter to HYDRA or anything, he just needs the stone to exist in that timeline (or alternate universe). It's still an alternate timeline of course, but not a "broken" one. I actually wonder who Steve might trust with the stones. Would he maybe have given the Ancient one both of the 2012 stones? Or would he maybe try to hide the mind stone? I doubt he'd trust Fury with it. Maybe he entrusts it to the 2012 Thor?
So all this talk about Cap "putting the ether back into Jane" or even meeting up with Red Skull is unnecessary. I just took TAO's speech to mean that every reality/timeline/universe needs all 6 stones in it to keep things balanced etc. They can be anywhere really. So while I'm sure Cap might feel something where he feels he should minimize any changes etc., they've already made changes simply by showing up. There's no going back really.* (see more on that thought below). The same can be said about the 'two caps' debate. If we've been watching the timeline all along where Cap was living out his life with Peggy and also frozen in ice somewhere, so be it. That timeline clearly exists somewhere. Cap is maybe the only character with the resolve to actually sit back and not interfere. It would be a nice callback to his exchange with Tony in Civil War actually "sometimes I wish I could". Maybe the Cap that went back after Endgame had seen/learned enough to realize there are some times where you should actually stand by if you see something headed south. He might believe that finding/saving Bucky in the 40s is actually selfish and could have a negative impact on other things indirectly. Bucky wouldn't have been around for the events of Endgame for example. Given that Strange saw 14 million futures and only 1 where they 'won', Cap might not even be inclined to try and stop the snap/blip for fear that it would be impossible and letting things play out to get to the 1 in 14 million future was the only way to go.
* The only way I can think of where Cap could somehow prevent any splits at all, would be to literally meet everyone the second they arrive in the past and simply hand them the stones. Though that would get awkward with Natasha since Cap would have to tell her she can't go back. And she can't really sacrifice herself for the soul stone again either since in order to preserver that timeline it has to stay where it is (presumably until Thanos and Gamora show up years later). And of course while this might preserve the 5 timelines that got messed up, it actually would mess up the 1 where the Avengers "win". i.e. would Tony make the same decision if he hadn't had that conversation with his father? Would Cap and Tony have worked together as well in the final Endgame battle if they hadn't bonded over their side trip? Would Clint have been the same if instead of Nat sacrificing herself she's told to stay back in the past by some future version of Cap?
