Joker

And it's not, not really. The issue I think is that the violence that does happen is abrupt in many cases. Which I think makes the film brilliant. But yeah, if someone went expecting a "comic book movie" then the violence is going to be a shock. Especially when it's mixed with "funny" clown stuff. There are a few scenes where you literally have people in the theatre laughing while other people are in horror. And I think that's amazing film-making. There are many times where the laughter is awkward and nervous as in "that's funny but I know I'm not supposed to be laughing".

This movie has more in common with Taxi Driver than it does with The Dark Knight.

Interesting but great point. I agree the tone of the film and some plot points were unexpected. I avoid trailers as much as possible for that reason (and others).

I saw someone suggest that in The Batman it wouldn't be Phoenix as Joker but another person entirely - i.e. someone inspired by the Joker of this film.

I do remember seeing some scenes and thinking of "Joker gas" or something infecting a crowd of people. Was that picture you're thinking of from the later scene where he escapes through the subway?

I had a chance to see Joker one Sunday. I rarely see films with reviews as poor as Joker had (68% on Rotten Tomatoes, 49% among top critics, and 59 on Metacritic). However, there was not much else that was good playing around me that I had not already seen other than Chloe Bennet's film. (You all do know that she voiced the lead character in the film that was #1 at the North American box office the weekend before Joker came out, right?) Judging by the reviews, my choice was between a flawed film that tried to do something interesting and a technically well done film that has nothing original. I chose the former.

Regarding people walking out because it was too violent: There may have been scattered cases of people who were expecting something closer to an MCU film. However, I have not seen reports of large scale walkouts due to violence in the film itself. There was a walkout at a theater about 11.5 miles (18.5 km) north-northwest from where I live, but that was due to a patron with a backpack pacing in front of the theater staring at the audience. A couple of nights before, a theater 1.5 miles (2.5 km) east of me shut down for a night due to "credible threats" of violence.

There has been a lot of speculation about whether Arthur Fleck was supposed to be an incel. If you do not know what an incel is, I recommend that you read the Wikipedia article on the topic. The reason is that I like to propose wacky theories, and I do not know how to describe the topic without sounding like a wacky theory. If you refuse to go to the article, here is my description:

I am skeptical about the extent to which Fleck really was an incel. It is likely that he did want to have sex with Sophie Dumond. However, being rejected by one person does not necessarily make one an incel. Furthermore, he did not seem to have a sense of entitlement in this area. There is also the controversy over whether or not Fleck murdered Dumond and her child. Supposedly, the film's cinematographer said that Fleck did not kill her as he killed only people he believes wronged him. However, if Fleck actually is an incel, being rejected would be wronging him in his mind.

I am not comfortable with linking mental health and violence. Far too often, particularly in the United States, people who do not want to do anything about violence say that we should do "something" about mental health. They never say what the "something" is that we should do about mental health. Are we supposed to hold square dances and wear funny hats? The reality is that if you tell me what you want to believe about the link between mental health and violence, I can point you toward evidence that would support your view and evidence that you will need to ignore. In general, people with mental health problems are not more likely than other people to commit violence. If anything, they are more likely to be the victims of violence rather than the perpetrators. In this way, Joker promotes an ugly stereotype. However, there are specific forms of mental illness that are linked to violence, including depression. I do not think that it would be a stretch to say that Fleck may have had depression.

Taxi Driver was not the first Martin Scorsese film that I thought of while watching Joker, although I can see how Joker was influenced by gritty urban dramas from the 1970s like Taxi Driver. Instead, I was thinking of The King of Comedy. For what is it worth, I am not fond of Taxi Driver either. Among Scorsese's work, I prefer Goodfellas and Raging Bull among other films.

I agree that we saw the Joker for too little time. It is the typical problem of origin-story films. We are there to see the title character but origin-story films usually wait until the climax to show the character. The alter-egos are rarely as interesting as the superheroes or supervillains.

It definitely looks like Joaquin Phoenix will win Best Actor for this film. If I had my way, he would have aready won for a different film like Her.

I have mixed feelings about whether this should be the Joker who fights Batman. On one hand, I do not like the idea of THE Joker being merely a copycat. On the other hand, if this is the Joker that Batman fights, this would mean that Batman, in his late twenties/early thirties (?) would be beating up on a middle-aged man. This does not seem particularly fair.

I have not read any of the comic books, so I cannot say exactly what is the original or definitive portrayal of the Joker. I have seen several film portrayals. In chronological order of original release:

• Cesar Romero in Batman: The Movie (1966)
• Jack Nicholson in Batman (1989)
• Mark Hamill in Batman: Mask of the Phantasm (1993) (voice only)
• Heath Ledger in The Dark Knight (2008)
• Zach Galifianakis in The Lego Batman Movie (2017) (voice only)
• Joaquin Phoenix in Joker (2019)

Each was a unique interpretation of the character designed for the film in which he appeared. One cannot take Galifianakis's version and dump him into The Dark Knight or Phoenix's version and dump him in Batman: The Movie. If I had to pick which one was the most compelling, I would say it was Ledger's. When I was watching his interpretation of the Joker as chaos personified, I was thinking, "I can see why this character is so iconic." Ledger's Joker had an origin story. In fact, he had several. Which one do you want to hear? For a villain like the Joker, mystery works. If anything, not knowing how he came to be the way that he is makes him more terrifying.