|
|
Post by DoTheMath on Oct 18, 2019 2:52:56 GMT
There's a more far reaching social consequence of all those who were snapped suddenly re-appearing after 5 years. Larger (perhaps) than the snap itself, in terms of property rights, relationships, food availability and maybe even housing. I'm not even talking about the psychological impact of the dead suddenly returning to life... In terms of the film, those who weren't snapped, should have already graduated from high school, and shouldn't have been in the class trip. Just sayin'... (Sorry if this has been covered before. And I assume the snap/blip isn't spoiler territory anymore...  ) My understanding is that "blip" is being used for the entire thing - snap + 5 years + return. But yeah, there would be some major complexities for sure. Some alluded to in the film (Aunt May returning to find new people living in her old apartment, that one teacher who's wife used the snap to pretend she was snapped and leave him etc.) As implausible as it may be, we're to assume that all the main characters on the trip were either snapped/blipped or were years younger before the snap. So some of the Pete's classmates (who never really factored into the first film much) did graduate. The rest (Ned, Flash, MJ) all conveniently skipped the same 5 years Peter did. Operative word...... |
|
|
|
Post by DoTheMath on Oct 18, 2019 3:04:07 GMT
EDITH, which is an acronym for why was Iron Man the leading man in a Spider Man film? I'm sorry but there was just too much IM BS in this flick. I love IM and Tony; and, I think no one could have done a better job than RDJ, but he was WAY overused throughout the first 22 movies. And now to have the dead character dominate Spiderman's second MCU movie, well.............. it was a bit off-putting for me.
Don't know if they were trying too hard (I expected it for Endgame, BTW), or what........... but, yeah, something was off. I enjoyed and have watched it 3 times (and will watch more in the future). I just wish I had EDITH glasses so I could target EDITH....... Preach! Seriously, I couldn't agree more with that! I was already kinda pissed off when then basically gave most of the third Captain America movie to Iron Man, especially in light of the immense success of The Winter Soldier. But, hey, the movie was called Civil War, so it made sense that both factions in the fight would get adequate screen time. Still annoying, but I get it. Seeing as Tony was then the one who introduced Spider-Man into the superhero big leagues, it made sense that he would play a big role in Spider-Man Homecoming, too. Although, I felt his part in there was really well integrated into the story. He only showed up, or was even brought up, when it really counted and it helped motive Peter's character arc. But, yeah, as you said, the guy is dead! Does he really have to play such a big part in other people's movies at this point?! I wanna see Spider-Man being Spider-Man, not just act like he's a sidekick who just lost his hero friend. Man, I really hope his appearance in the Black Widow movie is just gonna be like a small cameo, because if they have Tony Stark all up in that plotline, I'm gonna be pissed! This should have been in the sound tracK: Hero I am so high, I can hear heaven I am so high, I can hear heaven Whoa, but heaven no, heaven don't hear me And they say That a hero could save us I'm not gonna stand here and wait I'll hold onto the wings of the eagles Watch as we all fly away Someone told me Love would all save us But, how can that be Look what love gave us A world full of killing And blood spilling That world never came And they say That a hero could save us I'm not gonna stand here and wait I'll hold onto the wings of the eagles Watch as we all fly away Now that the world isn't ending It's love that I'm sending to you It isn't the love of a hero And that's why I fear it won't do And they say That a hero could save us I'm not gonna stand here and wait I'll hold onto the wings of the eagles Watch as we all fly away And they're watching us They're watching us As we all fly away And they're watching us They're watching us As we all fly away And they're watching us They're watching us As we all fly away Source: LyricFind Songwriters: Chad Kroeger Hero lyrics © Warner Chappell Music, Inc |
|
|
|
Post by ayanami on Oct 18, 2019 18:04:08 GMT
Preach! Seriously, I couldn't agree more with that! I was already kinda pissed off when then basically gave most of the third Captain America movie to Iron Man, especially in light of the immense success of The Winter Soldier. But, hey, the movie was called Civil War, so it made sense that both factions in the fight would get adequate screen time. Still annoying, but I get it. Seeing as Tony was then the one who introduced Spider-Man into the superhero big leagues, it made sense that he would play a big role in Spider-Man Homecoming, too. Although, I felt his part in there was really well integrated into the story. He only showed up, or was even brought up, when it really counted and it helped motive Peter's character arc. But, yeah, as you said, the guy is dead! Does he really have to play such a big part in other people's movies at this point?! I wanna see Spider-Man being Spider-Man, not just act like he's a sidekick who just lost his hero friend. Man, I really hope his appearance in the Black Widow movie is just gonna be like a small cameo, because if they have Tony Stark all up in that plotline, I'm gonna be pissed! This should have been in the sound tracK: Hero I am so high, I can hear heaven I am so high, I can hear heaven Whoa, but heaven no, heaven don't hear me And they say That a hero could save us I'm not gonna stand here and wait I'll hold onto the wings of the eagles Watch as we all fly away Someone told me Love would all save us But, how can that be Look what love gave us A world full of killing And blood spilling That world never came And they say That a hero could save us I'm not gonna stand here and wait I'll hold onto the wings of the eagles Watch as we all fly away Now that the world isn't ending It's love that I'm sending to you It isn't the love of a hero And that's why I fear it won't do And they say That a hero could save us I'm not gonna stand here and wait I'll hold onto the wings of the eagles Watch as we all fly away And they're watching us They're watching us As we all fly away And they're watching us They're watching us As we all fly away And they're watching us They're watching us As we all fly away Source: LyricFind Songwriters: Chad Kroeger Hero lyrics © Warner Chappell Music, Inc That song was on the soundtrack for the very first Spider-Man movie with Tobey Maguire, so I'm afraid it's already taken. Absolutely LOVE the song btw!  |
|
|
|
Post by backroadjunkie on Oct 19, 2019 10:45:56 GMT
What was your beef?
Something felt "off" in this movie. Like they were trying too hard. (I had the same thought about Endgame.) I wish both SM movies would have had Watts commentary. Disappointed that they didn't have one... EDITH, which is an acronym for why was Iron Man the leading man in a Spider Man film? I'm sorry but there was just too much IM BS in this flick. I love IM and Tony; and, I think no one could have done a better job than RDJ, but he was WAY overused throughout the first 22 movies. And now to have the dead character dominate Spiderman's second MCU movie, well.............. it was a bit off-putting for me. Don't know if they were trying too hard (I expected it for Endgame, BTW), or what........... but, yeah, something was off. I enjoyed and have watched it 3 times (and will watch more in the future). I just wish I had EDITH glasses so I could target EDITH....... On one hand, I agree. Everything in the movie was based on Stark, from the antagonist to the protagonist to the side characters such as Fury and Happy. All of Spiderman's tech is Stark based. They even imply he's the next Iron Man, but that might actually be the direction Feige wants to take the MCU. (Which made the Sony/MCU split episode that much more laughable. They need some better decision makers over at Sony...) I do admit Even Dead, I'm The Hero was a laugh out loud moment for me... But on the other hand, I understand why they did it. Peter Parker may be the heir to all the Stark tech, and they did play the Father/Son thing to the hilt in Homecoming, Infinity War and Endgame. Happy pretty much spelled out the entire movie when he said (paraphrasing), "No you aren't Tony Stark, no one can be, but he picked you." The MCU is going to need a Stark like character, and this Peter Parker fits that better than any other character. If that's their intention, then this was pretty much the Tony Stark to Peter Parker transition movie.
Well, that and Iron Man was probably the most liked character and this was the first movie after he got fried.
I do need to watch it again, I've only seen it twice, and I was only half watching the second time (busy with another task.) Maybe I'll figure out what bothered me about it... |
|
|
|
Post by DoTheMath on Oct 22, 2019 2:54:11 GMT
EDITH, which is an acronym for why was Iron Man the leading man in a Spider Man film? I'm sorry but there was just too much IM BS in this flick. I love IM and Tony; and, I think no one could have done a better job than RDJ, but he was WAY overused throughout the first 22 movies. And now to have the dead character dominate Spiderman's second MCU movie, well.............. it was a bit off-putting for me. Don't know if they were trying too hard (I expected it for Endgame, BTW), or what........... but, yeah, something was off. I enjoyed and have watched it 3 times (and will watch more in the future). I just wish I had EDITH glasses so I could target EDITH....... On one hand, I agree. Everything in the movie was based on Stark, from the antagonist to the protagonist to the side characters such as Fury and Happy. All of Spiderman's tech is Stark based. They even imply he's the next Iron Man, but that might actually be the direction Feige wants to take the MCU. (Which made the Sony/MCU split episode that much more laughable. They need some better decision makers over at Sony...) I do admit Even Dead, I'm The Hero was a laugh out loud moment for me... But on the other hand, I understand why they did it. Peter Parker may be the heir to all the Stark tech, and they did play the Father/Son thing to the hilt in Homecoming, Infinity War and Endgame. Happy pretty much spelled out the entire movie when he said (paraphrasing), "No you aren't Tony Stark, no one can be, but he picked you." The MCU is going to need a Stark like character, and this Peter Parker fits that better than any other character. If that's their intention, then this was pretty much the Tony Stark to Peter Parker transition movie.
Well, that and Iron Man was probably the most liked character and this was the first movie after he got fried.
I do need to watch it again, I've only seen it twice, and I was only half watching the second time (busy with another task.) Maybe I'll figure out what bothered me about it... I definitely side with your "one hand" (obviously)  As for your "other hand"...... I, too, understand; however, there's a difference between understanding and having an appreciation for something. Yeah, I get it, Tony was a big deal in the MCU; but, on the "other hand"  , Spidey is "A" List and doesn't need a "B" list character to hold him up. I'm starting to wonder who they're going to shove down our throats next. Will they take another character and make them so indispensable they dominate the next 10 - 20 movies or will they let the characters each stand on their own. When you think about it (or, at least, when I do), Tony and Cap didn't get along and didn't even trust each other but they were the leaders of the Avengers. Tony may have "made the sacrifice play and laid down on the wire to let the other guy crawl over him" in the Avengers and he definitely had the ultimate snap in end game, but why did they make him THE hero (even when he's dead)? He was the worst decision maker in the 22 movie saga (Money trumps leadership?). I know Marvel (and Feige) always want conflicted heroes that conflict with each other, and that's OK. However, IMHO, they took it too far when they demoted Spidey to a C lister by having him suckle Stark's Teet. "I do admit Even Dead, I'm The Hero was a laugh out loud moment for me... "Yeah, me too. As for the "something off" thing, I think it was that it never really felt like a Spider Man movie about Spider Man. You already got my gist on EDITH, but, like you mentioned above, the antagonist wasn't about Spidey, either. Spider Man didn't fight his own villain like he did in Homecoming. He was fighting someone else's demon under the influential thumb of not-Fury. Homecoming felt like a Spider Man movie. Far From Home was more akin to listening to a bad "B" Side on an old 45rpm record. All that said, I will watch it again sometime within the next 23 weeks. I just finished ripping all my Marvel Blu Rays and now I need to watch every minute of every film to ensure they're of acceptable quality . I'm planning on at least one per week, but with winter coming and the days getting shorter, I may get in more than that......... |
|
|
|
Post by haxemon on Oct 22, 2019 13:36:44 GMT
It's ironic for me reading this discussion. While I agree with the takes in general and there are some great points, the situation doesn't bother me much at all. I think it works (to quote Vision). The irony comes from the fact that prior to Spidey being introduced into the MCU I was 100% on the "neighborhood Spider-Man" bandwagon. I really didn't want Spider-Man to be an Avenger. I didn't want him fighting Thanos. I didn't want him saving the world. I wanted him trying to balance stopping bank robbers and low-level villains with getting through high school etc. I thought his intro in Civil War worked well though. He was out of his element (or the element I wanted him in) but that was part of the story and he acted like he was out of his element. Then Homecoming was about him torn between "doing more" and staying where he belonged. He even lost the suit for a bit and while Tony (and Happy) were involved he was mostly on his own. Before IW I was really upset about "Iron Spider" but I have to admit I marked out when he got his new suit and marked out again when he discovered his extra legs.
So I was a reluctant passenger all along but have to admit I enjoyed it all. Even though he was an Avenger and did fight Thanos in a Stark suit he felt (to me) more like the real Spider-Man than we'd seen on film before.
FFH for me was the furthest they got from that. In the current MCU and how it has evolved, having Mysterio's origin and backstory the way it was does make sense. But I would have rather they had found a way to make him a Spider-Man villain, not just a Stark villain using Spider-Man as a substitute. Having this film incorporate Fury, the multiverse and world destruction again works in-MCU but I don't think they had to do a Spider-Man film this way. They could have had Mysterio as a bank robber using special effects etc. Having Peter receive EDITH and as "the next Stark" was the worst part of it for me (keeping in mind my gripes are minor and really more observations after the fact - I enjoyed the film while watching). Even within the MCU it doesn't fit perfectly for me. If they had spent time in earlier films showing Stark mentoring Parker or showing how Parker is near the same level of genius or something then maybe. But there are other people Tony could have trusted EDITH with.
So really, I guess my final take is that this worked really well for me as an MCU film, but wasn't the direction I would have liked for a Spider-Man film. Not really sure how much of it is due to Marvel/Sony (i.e. maybe keeping it tied to the MCU was deemed to be "safer" than helping Sony establish a new thread - pun intended). Or if they really felt they needed to put Tony in this one (which doesn't sound right - Marvel isn't that naive). They couldn't have ignored Tony (in universe or even just for Peter) but it would have been interesting to see them find a way to acknowledge the events of Endgame and the hole Tony leaves behind but still have this be a "Peter story".
Maybe we'll get that in the next one?
|
|
|
|
Post by Hari Seldon on Jul 27, 2020 0:47:36 GMT
I guess the live chat has some spoilers for Far From Home...
|
|
)
, Spidey is "A" List and doesn't need a "B" list character to hold him up. 