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Post by haxemon on Apr 29, 2019 13:19:19 GMT
I know Wong said "you wanted more?!?!?" but yes, I did.
Nat spent 5 years trying to protect the world with "whoever is left" - are you telling me she didn't find Luke Cage or Danny Rand and recruit them to help? Or Cloak and Dagger? Or Quake? It would have been so easy to include someone in that scene where she's getting reports form Rocket/Nebula, Okoye, Rhodey and Carol. Or even just mention someone. Easy to do without risking confusing the audience even. Or when Strange comes back on Titan and sends word to Wong to gather everyone (or however that was communicated since Strange and the gang came direct from Titan) they didn't have intel from Okoye or someone on other people that could help? It's been 5 years. In that time none of the TV/Netflix characters that were left crossed paths with the movie characters that were left?
I get that the battle took place in upstate New York and started and ended quickly. And I get that there's on a small fraction of us that really care about the connections to TV/Netflix, but this seemed like the right time to finally do it. It wouldn't have had to add time to the film even. Though I would have gladly watched a bit longer to have a scene where Coulson finds Nat shortly after the snap to offer help with whomever is left.
A totally minor quibble really - I "get" why this didn't happen but it certainly could have happened in one way or another without much trouble.
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Post by ayanami on May 2, 2019 14:40:33 GMT
As someone who was confused by the unexplained teenage kid in the funeral scene at the end (He's from IM3, I know now!), I'm glad they didn't get any ideas to throw in characters that we're in the movies before. With everything that was going on, it would have been a disservice to the script to take time out to explain their appearances, and to have them show up when a huge chunk of the audience doesn't know who they are would just have been a blatant insult to the viewers and the characters alike. Marvel: "11 years, 20 movies, watch as everything comes together in this epic finale of the Avengers saga!" Fans: "Wow, great movie, but say, who were all these people I saw in the final battle? They clearly weren't just more Asgardians or sorcerers or something, but I didn't recognise them?" Marvel: "What, you're not watching all of our 10 TV shows? Yeah, whatever, you don't really need to know anyway, they weren't important to the plot." Fans: "Okaaaayy..."  Nope, don't see that happening. |
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Post by aquaangel on May 2, 2019 15:17:17 GMT
I'm sure that if Coulson hadn't died on AOS (since it was five years in the future), we probably would have at least seen him at the funeral since he was in some of the movies and had a connection/friendship with Tony. |
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Post by haxemon on May 2, 2019 16:00:00 GMT
As someone who was confused by the unexplained teenage kid in the funeral scene at the end (He's from IM3, I know now!), I'm glad they didn't get any ideas to throw in characters that we're in the movies before. With everything that was going on, it would have been a disservice to the script to take time out to explain their appearances, and to have them show up when a huge chunk of the audience doesn't know who they are would just have been a blatant insult to the viewers and the characters alike. Marvel: "11 years, 20 movies, watch as everything comes together in this epic finale of the Avengers saga!" Fans: "Wow, great movie, but say, who were all these people I saw in the final battle? They clearly weren't just more Asgardians or sorcerers or something, but I didn't recognise them?" Marvel: "What, you're not watching all of our 10 TV shows? Yeah, whatever, you don't really need to know anyway, they weren't important to the plot." Fans: "Okaaaayy..." Nope, don't see that happening. Yeah it would have to be done right and that could mean extra time which may make it hard. I'm just saying that for the 22nd film it was "worth it" IMO. In Infinity War you can make the argument that the stuff that happened in NYC was too quick for Luke Cage or Daredevil to get involved (though Spidey managed to). But in Endgame we see that Earth has been in some level of chaos for 5 years. I find it a bit hard to believe that at no point did any other heroes connect with the movie heroes. So I'll assume in my head canon that they did but they didn't show in the film for the reasons you cite here. That said, from a writing point of view, this film was the time IMO to take that step. Add in a scene where Nat does some exposition about how in the last 5 years they've looked for and recruited more people to help replace the ones lost. There are ways to do that without confusing or frustrating fans that never watched the other stuff. But yes, that would take screen time to do correctly and I can accept that there just wasn't time. The Coulson bit is worse (though of Marvel's own making). They could have done something (AoU was the best time IMO) to let film-only audiences know he was saved in Tahiti. Again though, screen time. But if they had done that anywhere along the way then he easily can fit in to Endgame. Nat can say "Coulson is pulling together whatever remaining SHIELD agents he can find" and that group can be shown and include our favs from the show. If they wrote it that Daisy got dusted and therefore isn't part of it, there's no explanation needed. Anyway, I know it's a small number of people who care. I just think they could have addressed it without sacrificing anything on the film side. |
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Post by Hari Seldon on May 6, 2019 2:36:52 GMT
Let's face it, we already knew the AoS crew wouldn't make the movie. We did good getting James D'Arcy from the Agent Carter series getting to play Jarvis on screen. Considering Bucky was using a regular gun in the big battle, wouldn't it have made sense for the US armed forces to make an appearance?
A big thing for me is that in the early going, everything they showed on screen made it look like 90-95% of the population had vanished. Even with half of the people, there should have been tons of activity going on instead of garbage in the streets with disabled cars. Half the population would not have turned major cities into ghost towns.
And addressing the ending, I wonder if the writers even thought about the mess with the people being brought back. I'm sure there were a significant number of suicides from people who couldn't cope with the friends and family they lost and on the other side of the coin a lot of people really would have moved on and in five years and people would be returning to find their spouses had remarried and maybe even had a kid or two in what for them was the blink of an eye (If I remember correctly, Spiderman said there was no real passage of time).
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Post by aquaangel on May 6, 2019 10:22:18 GMT
The thing that bothers me is that it's all too convenient that apparently all of Peter's friends (and his bully) were also dusted so that they can all still be there for Far From Home. At least one of his main friends should have survived and grown older. Hopefully they will at least mention that some people in his school did survive the decimation. It would be very unbelievable for the entire student body to have vanished.
Also, I hope that the five year thing is addressed regarding Doctor Strange's lady friend, Christine Palmer. Like, did she get married while he was dusted or is she still single? And if the latter, will that bring them back together?
And will it be addressed in Black Panther's sequel? Like who had taken over the kingdom if both T'Challa and Shuri were dusted?
Is Adam Warlock still in his cocoon or is he out yet? And will they go with him being the villian in Gotg3, or will he be an ally? I think he was both in the comics, right?
[So many unanswered questions.
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Post by ayanami on May 6, 2019 10:47:14 GMT
Let's face it, we already knew the AoS crew wouldn't make the movie. We did good getting James D'Arcy from the Agent Carter series getting to play Jarvis on screen. Considering Bucky was using a regular gun in the big battle, wouldn't it have made sense for the US armed forces to make an appearance?
A big thing for me is that in the early going, everything they showed on screen made it look like 90-95% of the population had vanished. Even with half of the people, there should have been tons of activity going on instead of garbage in the streets with disabled cars. Half the population would not have turned major cities into ghost towns.
And addressing the ending, I wonder if the writers even thought about the mess with the people being brought back. I'm sure there were a significant number of suicides from people who couldn't cope with the friends and family they lost and on the other side of the coin a lot of people really would have moved on and in five years and people would be returning to find their spouses had remarried and maybe even had a kid or two in what for them was the blink of an eye (If I remember correctly, Spiderman said there was no real passage of time).
Yeah, I also wondered about that. Plus, in addition to all the emotional fallout, there's also the tiny issue that in these five years, economies all over the universe did not only have to adjust to the sudden loss of manpower, but also to the loss of half of the consumer market. In Thanos' eyes that obviously meant double the resources for everyone, but it would also have meant that a lot less could - and would - have been produced. Food most importantly, obviously, but everything else, too. |
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Post by haxemon on May 6, 2019 21:53:28 GMT
I think the two concerns Hari and ayanami are discussing could have a bit of a mutual answer. I wonder if people tended to collect in some cities and abandon others. Or areas within cities. i.e. would people want to live in an apartment building where ever second unit was empty or would they want to move to a building that's essentially full? And would that make more sense economically and from a practical standpoint? i.e. would people try to power and supply water etc. to half-full buildings or would government agencies work towards people centralizing to minimize the strain on utilities, garbage collection, maintenance etc.
Thanos' plan was really flawed (despite what the whales may think).
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Post by FreeKresge on May 8, 2019 4:52:15 GMT
Regarding the absence of characters from television shows: I view the slogan, "It's all connected," to be simply a bit of puffery and that the films and the television shows are in similar but separate universes. In fact, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Agent Carter might be in the same universe as each other, but they are likely in a separate universe from the Netflix shows, and I doubt that anyone else wants to be in the same universe as Inhumans. The universes have similarities. Both the film universe and the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. universe have Sokovia Accords. Captain Marvel appears to have incorporated the idea that Kree blood can heal humans. I am going to assume that came from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. although, for all I know, that was well established in the comics. There are also many differences. For example, my understanding is that Coulson is dead as far as the film universe is concerned even though he was resurrected in the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. universe. It is also my understanding that none of the television shows plan to incorporate the snappening. If they are connected, they are only loosely connected. From an out-of-universe perspective, incorporating elements from television shows into films has an added issue of very different production schedules. For the movies, filming could take place a year before release. For television shows, the writers probably have little if any idea where the show will be one year later, at least when they were on standard schedules. At the time that Avengers: End Game started filming, the writers of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. probably had only a basic idea of where season five would be going and would have no clue on whether there would be a sixth season or when it would air. A crossover, for example, could easily have Elena with two natural arms. Then there is the issue that much of Avengers: End Game takes place a few years in the future. For all we know, not only will the seventh season end up being the final season, but it will have a Blake's 7 style ending (see bottom of this post). This might make any crossovers very tough to do. Despite all that, I would still enjoy a crossover or even an Easter egg or two. For example, I liked the theory that Coulson would be resurrected in Avengers: End Game. From the perspective of the film, it would be from his death in the first Avengers film. From our perspective, it would be from soon after the fifth season ended. Spoiler for Blake's 7: If Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. ends like Blake's 7, the final act of the final episode would have Hydra (or the season's villain) raiding S.H.I.E.L.D.'s headquarters. May, Daisy, Fitz, Simmons, Mack, Elena, Deke, Davis, and Piper will all be shot dead. The show will end with Coulson completely surrounded. We will see him raising a gun just as the show cuts to final credits, when we will hear gunfire. |
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I'll be spending next weekend with some family I like and trying to avoid any remotely controversial conversations with others that I spend the rest of the year avoiding 