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Post by FreeKresge on Mar 5, 2018 6:34:52 GMT
Now for another time travel issue/question: Anybody know what date the team was taken from the diner? Or see/hear a date of when they returned? One would think they had to come back to a time after the team was taken so there'd be no issues of two SHIELD teams in the same point and time. Likewise, they had to return after Fitz was rescued so there wouldn't be two Fitz's. Right? So, if that's the case..................... why didn't Hunter and young Robin and her mom welcome them back from the future when the returned to the lighthouse? Hopefully we'll get an answer to that (or you all will have one). The date on the back of Hope's photo was April 18, 2006. "Wake Up" took place exactly eleven years after she died at four days old, so, unless the photo was a sonogram, "Wake Up" took place sometime between April 18 and 22, 2017. The remaining episodes before the team entered the framework went rather quickly. They then spent ten days in the Framework and a bit of time afterward. I do not recall a specific date as to when Enoch took the team, but my guess would be early to mid May 2017. Noah noted that he was glad that Fitz returned safely, so the team had to have returned to a time after Fitz entered the cryo-stasis chamber. Fitz spent six months in prison before entering the chamber, so the return was November 2017 at the earliest. In "Rewind," there were leaves on the ground when Enoch, Fitz, and Hunter met Robin, but there were still plenty of leaves on the trees. This suggests November at the latest, even assuming that they were in a warm climate. The problem is that there were also a lot of green leaves on the trees at Lake Ontario, which is not in a warm climate. This would suggest that they arrived at the lighthouse no later than mid September 2017, which is less than six months after the anniversary of Hope's death. Meanwhile, there were plenty of green leaves on the trees in the latest episode, and nobody seemed dressed for particularly cold weather, so it is more likely to be at least spring 2018. Of course, one can come to the conclusion that I am overthinking things. As far as Hunter, Polly, and Robin are concerned, Noah said that everybody who knows about the bunker was already in the bunker. This would seem to include the three of them, so it is a good question why the three of them were not seen in the episode. |
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Post by Hari Seldon on Mar 5, 2018 9:04:34 GMT
I thoroughly enjoyed the episode. Deke's bar time didn't bother me as it was entertaining as hell. Now for another time travel issue/question: Anybody know what date the team was taken from the diner? Or see/hear a date of when they returned? One would think they had to come back to a time after the team was taken so there'd be no issues of two SHIELD teams in the same point and time. Likewise, they had to return after Fitz was rescued so there wouldn't be two Fitz's. Right? So, if that's the case..................... why didn't Hunter and young Robin and her mom welcome them back from the future when the returned to the lighthouse? Hopefully we'll get an answer to that (or you all will have one). I was wondering about the return time too. As for Hunter and young Robin and mother, add on top of that how Noah said that everyone who knew about the Lighthouse was there in that room. Does that mean Noah doesn't know about them or did he erase their memories, or did either Noah or the writers merely forget? |
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Post by backroadjunkie on Mar 5, 2018 17:12:22 GMT
(Camera slowly pans around to show the entire team.) Coulson: "This is what Voss warned me about. If he's right, then this is where it all all starts. Hell on Earth." Mack: "Aaaannnnd we're back." (Insert opening title, break for commercial.) YEP, THEEEEEEYYYYYY'RE BACK!  That shot was fantastic. That was awesome. I like how they tickled the fourth wall.I saw that and thought it could be the cast photo for the second arc of the season.  She doesn't need to die right away, just sometime before the end of the season. I'm a patient guy... No, I had something a little more derogatory than "idiot" in mind. Total understandable if you think about it. He's got the Framework, but it lacks the reality of things like trees, or what a beer (or a cheeseburger) actually tastes like. Hunter, Robin and her Mom could have already left. I think we know they left because of the vision of the Zephyr crashing with Robin on board. Why else would she be on the Zephyr, if it wasn't the team collecting her? Noah never would have known they were there, unless Enoch told them. This brings us to another point, how did Noah get there? If he wasn't already on Earth (there's more than one here?), then they have mightily fast ships... |
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Post by beren44 on Mar 5, 2018 18:14:00 GMT
Noah never would have known they were there, unless Enoch told them. This brings us to another point, how did Noah get there? If he wasn't already on Earth (there's more than one here?), then they have mightily fast ships... Yes, there are a lot of unanswered questions produced with the introduction of Noah. Has he also been there for thousands of years? Are there other Chronicoms as well? Was Enoch an outcast among their kind, and/or have they been in communication with each other? I wonder how much exposition we will get concerning this. |
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Post by beren44 on Mar 7, 2018 22:32:56 GMT
Great episode. Starting to trust the writers to finish out the season well. Not gonna forgive them for way too much Kasius though. At least I got an FX fix...the hole in the ocean where May landed the Zepher was pretty damn cool!
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Post by FreeKresge on Mar 8, 2018 6:41:39 GMT
Random thoughts about this episode:
We have confirmation of why Jeff Ward has been more prominent than the other actors playing characters from 2091. I should be glad that Deke did not die, but I am not happy that he is still around. This end of the show could be near. I would rather spend what time we have left with the characters that I have grown to care about over the last few years rather than with this new guy. It is hard enough to find enough time for seven characters plus time for villains. Adding an eighth (or a ninth if Piper sticks around) makes this worse.
Why is Deke in the present anyway? In the first ten episodes, he was as the person who supplied the exposition and as the person who knew how to get things done in 2091. None of this will be of any use in the present, and I do not see a need for an audience-surrogate character this late in the show's run.
My two favorite episodes of the show so far are "4,722 Hours" and "Self Control." For each of these, I was very much looking forward to them based on what I knew from the previous episodes. I can count, so I know that the next episode is the 100th episode. Even if I could not, there are several threads here (and elsewhere) hyping the 100th episode. However, if my sum total of my knowledge of the show came from the episodes themselves, I would have no reason to think that the next one would be special.
There is a lot of speculation that the beam will inadvertently summon the Kree to earth. This is probably correct, but there are scientific barriers. Except for maybe Firefly, nearly every television show with space travel had faster-than-light-speed travel. I assume that this is the case here as well, or it would have been over a decade between the time when Kasius discovered Daisy and when the bidders arrived. However, that beam should still be traveling at the speed of light and should take years to reach even the closest star systems, assuming that it is pointed in the right direction.
It occurs to me that, after the darkness in the Framework and the Lighthouse, this may be the funniest episode since we last saw the Koenigs.
I had the wacky theory that Enoch and Noah were not merely named after figures from the Old Testament (Genesis in particular) but actually were these individuals. This would explain how those figures lived for centuries. The problem is that I do not know that sentient Chronicoms from a planet which revolves around a star in the constellation we know as Cygnus can "begat."
These sentient Chronicoms from a planet... appear to have a life expectancy of millennia, unless they encounter the team, in which they would be lucky to live a month before sacrificing themselves for the team. Still, May appears to be rather prejudiced against them. At least it is someone other than Mack who is the voice of prejudice.
So far, the team managed to get through an entire episode without being captured despite being the most wanted fugitives in the world. Is this because the local police failed to recognize them or because they were recognized, but the police believe that they are wrongly accused?
The trip to the present has not stopped the gore. It looks like Elena might end up with cool prostheses after all.
I can only imagine how important it is that the team let Coulson die if that is what Elena chose to warn herself about rather than warning herself about not going to get her arms chopped off.
Hale mentioned that she reports to someone as well. Is there a yet-to-be-seen bigger bad?
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Post by beren44 on Mar 8, 2018 9:14:44 GMT
Random thoughts about this episode: We have confirmation of why Jeff Ward has been more prominent than the other actors playing characters from 2091. I should be glad that Deke did not die, but I am not happy that he is still around. This end of the show could be near. I would rather spend what time we have left with the characters that I have grown to care about over the last few years rather than with this new guy. It is hard enough to find enough time for seven characters plus time for villains. Adding an eighth (or a ninth if Piper sticks around) makes this worse. B: Agree wholeheartedly. Concerned he is going to be the writer's comic relief valve for the rest of the season, and I would much rather have Hunter come back for a good run. At least he is a character that we the viewers, and the team, can relate to.
Why is Deke in the present anyway? In the first ten episodes, he was as the person who supplied the exposition and as the person who knew how to get things done in 2091. None of this will be of any use in the present, and I do not see a need for an audience-surrogate character this late in the show's run. B: good question. I'm not thrilled with the rampant speculation that he is a future relative of someone from the team. Not that it would be a bad story line, but the actor just is not clicking with me at all.There is a lot of speculation that the beam will inadvertently summon the Kree to earth. This is probably correct, but there are scientific barriers. Except for maybe Firefly, nearly every television show with space travel had faster-than-light-speed travel. I assume that this is the case here as well, or it would have been over a decade between the time when Kasius discovered Daisy and when the bidders arrived. However, that beam should still be traveling at the speed of light and should take years to reach even the closest star systems, assuming that it is pointed in the right direction. B: Good point, but they pointed out twice that the beam had an 'unusual frequency'. I thought at the time that the phrase was rather peculiar. Perhaps it will be shown to be some sort of 'sublight' signal?? Many other TV shows have gotten around space communication issues with a similar trope.It occurs to me that, after the darkness in the Framework and the Lighthouse, this may be the funniest episode since we last saw the Koenigs. I had the wacky theory that Enoch and Noah were not merely named after figures from the Old Testament (Genesis in particular) but actually were these individuals. This would explain how those figures lived for centuries. The problem is that I do not know that sentient Chronicoms from a planet which revolves around a star in the constellation we know as Cygnus can "begat." B: Interesting observation about the Bible tie-in. To answer your question, Enoch did say he was mostly plastic, and Noah said that Chronicoms had no gender. Perhaps they re-create by Mylar Mytosis? These sentient Chronicoms from a planet... appear to have a life expectancy of millennia, unless they encounter the team, in which they would be lucky to live a month before sacrificing themselves for the team. Still, May appears to be rather prejudiced against them. At least it is someone other than Mack who is the voice of prejudice. B: I mentioned elsewhere that something about May felt 'off' the last few episodes, regardless of her being a bit lamed up in both real life and the show, and this is a perfect example. She has been repeatedly at odds with Enoch, from the moment she met him, and they have yet to explain why. Her character in general seems to have softened up a bit after her Framework experience, yet she is just as hard-nosed as ever when it comes to Enoch.So far, the team managed to get through an entire episode without being captured despite being the most wanted fugitives in the world. Is this because the local police failed to recognize them or because they were recognized, but the police believe that they are wrongly accused? B: When Hale was notified that the team had been spotted, I initially thought that the deputy (second policeman) that had Deke in custody, recognized Daisy and called it in. I am still not counting that out, it was a pretty pointed scene with him. Still, immediately afterward, Piper's betrayal happens, so unless I missed something, there is some ambiguity about all this.The trip to the present has not stopped the gore. It looks like Elena might end up with cool prostheses after all. I can only imagine how important it is that the team let Coulson die if that is what Elena chose to warn herself about rather than warning herself about not going to get her arms chopped off. Hale mentioned that she reports to someone as well. Is there a yet-to-be-seen bigger bad? B: With all the hype about bringing back characters, and paying homage to past seasons, I got to thinking...And I was going to add this to my pre-100 thoughts thread, but may as well say it here...
If the Superior is coming back, and he had an underwater base for years, well..we have lost Donnie Gill AND Vijay to the ocean, with no resolution. Could it be that Hale answers to The Superior, and they will be part of the 'team' she is assembling? Or, even more off-the-wall, could she turn out to be a good guy, and the two underlings she shot while interrogating Hunter were actually agents of The Superior?
Oh well, not much longer to wonder about all this. We will find out soon enough.
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Post by FreeKresge on Mar 9, 2018 5:19:27 GMT
We have confirmation of why Jeff Ward has been more prominent than the other actors playing characters from 2091. I should be glad that Deke did not die, but I am not happy that he is still around. This end of the show could be near. I would rather spend what time we have left with the characters that I have grown to care about over the last few years rather than with this new guy. It is hard enough to find enough time for seven characters plus time for villains. Adding an eighth (or a ninth if Piper sticks around) makes this worse. B: Agree wholeheartedly. Concerned he is going to be the writer's comic relief valve for the rest of the season, and I would much rather have Hunter come back for a good run. At least he is a character that we the viewers, and the team, can relate to.
Why is Deke in the present anyway? In the first ten episodes, he was as the person who supplied the exposition and as the person who knew how to get things done in 2091. None of this will be of any use in the present, and I do not see a need for an audience-surrogate character this late in the show's run. B: good question. I'm not thrilled with the rampant speculation that he is a future relative of someone from the team. Not that it would be a bad story line, but the actor just is not clicking with me at all. While I do not see the need for more characters, I would definitely prefer adding Hunter instead of Deke. Jeff Ward has not been clicking with me either, but, to be fair, neither Chloe Bennet nor Brett Dalton were clicking with me at this point in the first season. The difference is that there was time for them to grow and for the writers to figure out their strengths. If this is the end of the show, there is not much time for this to happen with Jeff Ward. I still hope that this will not be the final season of the show. Today, I noticed that Entertainment Weekly has the show's chances as " Could go either way." You are probably right. This is an area that would greatly limit the stories that science-fiction writers can tell if they stuck to science. It occurred to me this morning that the Great Flood could possibly be considered an "extinction-level event." If her hostility were aimed only at Enoch, it could have been resentment at Enoch kidnapping her and the team and sending them to the future. Hostility toward Noah as well suggests deeper prejudice. It makes sense that someone who spent a significant amount of time as a top official in Hydra would develop significant prejudices. I am operating under the assumption that the pointed scene with the deputy was the show messing with us. Even though Lucy seems obsessed with Daisy, she still went to where the rest of the team was, not where Daisy was. I like your idea about Hale reporting to Ivanov. I assume that Ivanov has an important role to play this season or he would have been taken out at the end of the fourth season. It seems weird that a U.S. Air Force general would answer to him, but it would be no weirder than a U.S. senator doing the same. For now, I am skeptical about Hale actually being a good guy. Lucy gave an order to kill the team. When she failed, Hale lectured her for being "sloppy and incomplete," not for being violent in the first place. Furthermore, if Hale were a good guy, there would have to be better ways to have dealt with Evans and Lucas than killing them. Finally, Evans was one of Talbot's aides from the fourth season finale. If she were working for Ivanov, she would have had to fool Talbot. Although Talbot is a comic relief character, he is usually portrayed as being very competent. On the other hand, Hale may genuinely believe that the team is a threat that needs to be taken out for the greater good, and Evans may have been good enough to have fooled Talbot. |
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Post by ayanami on Mar 9, 2018 21:30:30 GMT
Some very belated thoughts on episode 99: - Ruby's got to have the most punchable face I've ever seen on this show. I doubt she'll be a villain I'll look forward to having stick around. Also pretty sure she ain't completely human. I don't care about her training; throwing that chakram to cut Yoyo's arms off mid-run?? That's insane!!! On a side-note: Who the f- designed her combat outfit? Seriously, terrible 80's sci-fi called, they want their wardrobe back! - Loved Coulson's Papa Bear speech to Skye about there not being any universe in which he would ever leave her behind. And her knowing better than to argue! Father-daughter bonding ftw!! - "This Shield technology should make you think that the 1980's got here a bit early." - ROFL! One of my favourite lines of the episode. - Noah is alright, but he ain't no Enoch! - "Everyone who knows about this bunker is now inside of it." - Yeah, no way Noah doesn't know about Robin at least, even if not about Hunter (and Bobbi?) for some reason. So where is she? / are they? And why doesn't Fitz bring up that question??? - "We Chronicoms monitor the line between the world and a stranger word." Now that was my favourite line of the episode! That's what I call a frickin call-back! *sigh* Man, I still miss S1 Ward, even after all this time...  - "We have a small but active fan base." Boy, do you guys ever! Reminds me of Supernatural's "It's kind of a cult classic."  Just, don't lean to hard on the forth wall, will ya? - A dig at Trump and a Thor Ragnarok shoutout in one breath; I'm impressed! - It Could Be Worse: Shield Edition. May wins, hands down! - Deke in the present was amazing and hilarious and heartwarming! You go hug some more trees, dude, and drink however much Zima you like!!  Oh, and also: drunk Deke is adorable! - Worst police officers EVER! Not only did that one guy not recognise the team, despite them being most wanted, but QUAKE?? For real? She's been famous for what, two years now? And those cops let themselves get fooled by a ponytail? Oh, come on! - Biggest plothole of the episode: Noah's clothes fitting Skye. Seriously, I don't think so. (Oh, and Skye didn't think about a name for herself before going undercover? Right...) - Agent Piper is as good as dead. I know she didn't mean her betrayal of the team to turn out like it did, but she gathered some really bad karma there. - Poor Yoyo! Damn, I really thought Kasius had done that with her arms, did not expect this to happen at all. As I think no-one really did. Btw, Ruby, cutting off people's arms is a very bad way to impress your heroes! Bitch! - Curious to see if Noah is gone be a one-episode-wonder or if he survived his attempt to stop the bomb at the end of the ep. And of course, what's happening with the three monoliths (and what the other two are even for!). - So, is General Hale the new Director Fury now? What with her putting together a team and all? Damn, this episode was really huge in regards to shoutouts and call-backs. It's almost like we're reaching a big mile stone or something. Well, I guess the episode 5x11 discussion is pretty much done at this point, but I still wanted to get this out there before the big 100 drops. |
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Post by beren44 on Jan 15, 2019 4:48:15 GMT
And probably one of the best exchanges of the night: (In Volkswagen van) May: Eh, it could be worse. Jemma: True, we could be enslaved by an alien sociopath in a dystopian future. Mack: Or we could be trapped inside a virtual reality fascist state. Fitz: Or sunk to the bottom of the ocean. Yo-Yo: Or stopping a crazy robot lady. Jemma: Or falling out of a plane. Mack: Fighting Daisy's Mom. Coulson: Or fighting Daisy's Dad. May: Or dancing. HAhahahaha.... regarding the need to finish the re-watch through season 5 on time, I suggest just watching the episodes with Enoch, the 5.5 episode with Fitz, and this, 5.11, in which May delivers perhaps the funniest line of the whole season.
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That shot was fantastic.
Just, don't lean to hard on the forth wall, will ya? 
Oh, and also: drunk Deke is adorable!