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Post by caseyrook AKA Mechelle on Feb 23, 2018 19:56:54 GMT
beren44, ayanami, and anyone else reading this: What are your feelings about Mack? If you hate him, why? If you like him, why? I started out feeling indifferent about him in season 2, and then the whole 'Real'SHIELD stupidity happened and I hated him. Nowadays, I like that Mack worked so well with Fitz in the beginning. I didn't care much about Fitz at the time I originally watched 2A so i don't remember how I felt about Mack working with Fitz at the time. I do remember being put off by how he talked to Simmons after she came back (telling her how she made Fitz worse). He earned a begrudging respect from me for saving Coulson's life with that axe, but only 'cause he saved my favorite character from certain death. In season three, I still didn't like him that much, but I had the same, only stronger, feelings about Coulson. So I found a weird appreciation for him because he acted as a good counter-balance to Coulson. In season 4, I won't say that I did like him, but I did like that he was partnered with Coulson because of the whole-counter balance partnership. Mack has no problem reigning Coulson in when Coulson needs to be. He also does obviously care about everyone on the team. Overall, Mack seems to be too 'blunt' and forthright with his opinions, which makes him very arrogant. That's one reason I often dislike him. I do like that he is together with Elena, and I feel like his FW storyline was needed to make him a more dimensional character. So in short, Mack does get on my nerves, but I feel like he's needed because he is a good-opposite to Coulson, and it's the scenes when he's acting like that counter-balance that I like him best.
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Post by FreeKresge on Feb 24, 2018 7:01:57 GMT
Initially, I did not have much of an opinion about Mack one way or another. He was introduced slowly, so I did not have a good sense of who he was other than someone who was friends with Hunter and Morse and someone who accepted brain-damaged Fitz at a time when Coulson, May, and Skye were avoiding him and Simmons abandoned him altogether. At the time, Fitz was probably my favorite character.
Like you, I disagreed with Mack when he said that Simmons was the only thing that was making Fitz worse. I am sure that Mack thought that he was simply defending his new friend, but I was shouting at the television that Mack did not know either Fitz or Simmons well enough to make that judgment.
One of my pet peeves with this show is that it often ignores character development whenever character development is inconvenient. In the middle of the second season, Mack suddenly went from being one of the most tolerant characters to one of the least tolerant characters. However, this was a rare example on the show of when a character change was done correctly. It was clear that Mack was very traumatized by being possessed. His new lack of tolerance was a direct result of this. I was not happy that he ganged up on a brain-damaged colleague who happened to show compassion for a friend, but he had a better psychological excuse than did the other three characters who did the same.
I did not like his participation in the Real S.H.I.E.L.D. coup. Whatever credit he gets from shielding Fitz during the initial attack is lost by the fact that he is partially responsible for putting Fitz in danger in the first place. I give him credit for being honest with his issues with Coulson toward the end of the season. I did not agree with him, but given his psychological state, I understand where he was coming from. I do give him credit for being willing to side with Coulson at the end of the season and for his heroics on the aircraft carrier, including, but not limited to, saving Coulson.
In the third season, I liked his relationship with Daisy, but some of his "she's my partner" statements came across as being paternalistic. I like his relationship with Elena, and, as I like Elena, I am glad that this helps bring her into the core of the show. He also redeemed one of his early bad moments by finally becoming a FitzSimmons shipper and conveniently "unloading the quinjet" for them. (I suspect that he "unloaded the quinjet" for Hunter and Morse as often as the two of them pulled the "my coms are out" trick.) Finally, I like the episode with his and his brother more than some people on this board does. The show needs to invest some time in exploring the characters.
The fourth season contains what I consider to be his worst moment on the show: his lecturing Fitz about being a mad scientist.
Admittedly, Mack was not entirely wrong. I would go so far as to say that S.H.I.E.L.D. (the organization, not the show) would have been better off if it fired Fitz during the final commercial break of the second season. This would mean that Simmons would not go to Maveth, Hive would not return from Maveth, and LMD and Framework programs would not be nearly as advanced. However, it was not Mack's job to deliver that lecture. Mace, Coulson, or Simmons should have delivered the lecture. Furthermore, Mack went beyond Fitz's specific actions to lines like "the line between scientist and mad scientist is paper thin." I am not employed as a scientist, but I was trained as one. That was a personal attack on me.
I liked his arc in the Framework. He also may deserve a bit of credit for not sabotaging Daisy's support of Fitz toward the end of the season finale.
So far in the fifth season, I cannot recall him making any prejudiced statements, but that could just be my memory. He was a good mentor to Flint, and he deserves a lot of credit for overthrowing Kasius.
Overall, he does a good job when he is working with the other characters. He is at his worst when he is used as the voice of prejudice on the show. I disagree about him being needed as a counter to Coulson. May is already good at that job. As a result, I believe that he is more expendable than the other main characters, I hope that budget cuts do not reach the core cast of the show. However, if one of the main characters has to go, I would drop him before I drop Fitz, Simmons, Coulson, May, or Daisy, perhaps even before dropping Elena.
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Post by caseyrook AKA Mechelle on Feb 24, 2018 16:31:05 GMT
Initially, I did not have much of an opinion about Mack one way or another. He was introduced slowly, so I did not have a good sense of who he was other than someone who was friends with Hunter and Morse and someone who accepted brain-damaged Fitz at a time when Coulson, May, and Skye were avoiding him and Simmons abandoned him altogether. At the time, Fitz was probably my favorite character. Like you, I disagreed with Mack when he said that Simmons was the only thing that was making Fitz worse. I am sure that Mack thought that he was simply defending his new friend, but I was shouting at the television that Mack did not know either Fitz or Simmons well enough to make that judgment. One of my pet peeves with this show is that it often ignores character development whenever character development is inconvenient. In the middle of the second season, Mack suddenly went from being one of the most tolerant characters to one of the least tolerant characters. However, this was a rare example on the show of when a character change was done correctly. It was clear that Mack was very traumatized by being possessed. His new lack of tolerance was a direct result of this. I was not happy that he ganged up on a brain-damaged colleague who happened to show compassion for a friend, but he had a better psychological excuse than did the other three characters who did the same. I did not like his participation in the Real S.H.I.E.L.D. coup. Whatever credit he gets from shielding Fitz during the initial attack is lost by the fact that he is partially responsible for putting Fitz in danger in the first place. I give him credit for being honest with his issues with Coulson toward the end of the season. I did not agree with him, but given his psychological state, I understand where he was coming from. I do give him credit for being willing to side with Coulson at the end of the season and for his heroics on the aircraft carrier, including, but not limited to, saving Coulson. In the third season, I liked his relationship with Daisy, but some of his "she's my partner" statements came across as being paternalistic. I like his relationship with Elena, and, as I like Elena, I am glad that this helps bring her into the core of the show. He also redeemed one of his early bad moments by finally becoming a FitzSimmons shipper and conveniently "unloading the quinjet" for them. (I suspect that he "unloaded the quinjet" for Hunter and Morse as often as the two of them pulled the "my coms are out" trick.) Finally, I like the episode with his and his brother more than some people on this board does. The show needs to invest some time in exploring the characters. The fourth season contains what I consider to be his worst moment on the show: his lecturing Fitz about being a mad scientist. Admittedly, Mack was not entirely wrong. I would go so far as to say that S.H.I.E.L.D. (the organization, not the show) would have been better off if it fired Fitz during the final commercial break of the second season. This would mean that Simmons would not go to Maveth, Hive would not return from Maveth, and LMD and Framework programs would not be nearly as advanced. However, it was not Mack's job to deliver that lecture. Mace, Coulson, or Simmons should have delivered the lecture. Furthermore, Mack went beyond Fitz's specific actions to lines like "the line between scientist and mad scientist is paper thin." I am not employed as a scientist, but I was trained as one. That was a personal attack on me. I liked his arc in the Framework. He also may deserve a bit of credit for not sabotaging Daisy's support of Fitz toward the end of the season finale. So far in the fifth season, I cannot recall him making any prejudiced statements, but that could just be my memory. He was a good mentor to Flint, and he deserves a lot of credit for overthrowing Kasius. Overall, he does a good job when he is working with the other characters. He is at his worst when he is used as the voice of prejudice on the show. I disagree about him being needed as a counter to Coulson. May is already good at that job. As a result, I believe that he is more expendable than the other main characters, I hope that budget cuts do not reach the core cast of the show. However, if one of the main characters has to go, I would drop him before I drop Fitz, Simmons, Coulson, May, or Daisy, perhaps even before dropping Elena. You've made great points. The only thing I will add is that I think Mack's prejudice was shown in season 2 before he was possessed by the temple. Remember how he acted in "The Writing On The Wall" when he learned all about Coulson and TAHITI? Even in the next episode he began questioning Coulson because of what he had saw. Also,the only reason I say I like Mack as a counter-balance to Coulson, is because of my many issues with Coulson.  |
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Post by beren44 on Feb 24, 2018 23:07:34 GMT
Initially, I did not have much of an opinion about Mack one way or another. He was introduced slowly, so I did not have a good sense of who he was other than someone who was friends with Hunter and Morse and someone who accepted brain-damaged Fitz at a time when Coulson, May, and Skye were avoiding him and Simmons abandoned him altogether. At the time, Fitz was probably my favorite character. Like you, I disagreed with Mack when he said that Simmons was the only thing that was making Fitz worse. I am sure that Mack thought that he was simply defending his new friend, but I was shouting at the television that Mack did not know either Fitz or Simmons well enough to make that judgment. One of my pet peeves with this show is that it often ignores character development whenever character development is inconvenient. In the middle of the second season, Mack suddenly went from being one of the most tolerant characters to one of the least tolerant characters. However, this was a rare example on the show of when a character change was done correctly. It was clear that Mack was very traumatized by being possessed. His new lack of tolerance was a direct result of this. I was not happy that he ganged up on a brain-damaged colleague who happened to show compassion for a friend, but he had a better psychological excuse than did the other three characters who did the same. I did not like his participation in the Real S.H.I.E.L.D. coup. Whatever credit he gets from shielding Fitz during the initial attack is lost by the fact that he is partially responsible for putting Fitz in danger in the first place. I give him credit for being honest with his issues with Coulson toward the end of the season. I did not agree with him, but given his psychological state, I understand where he was coming from. I do give him credit for being willing to side with Coulson at the end of the season and for his heroics on the aircraft carrier, including, but not limited to, saving Coulson. In the third season, I liked his relationship with Daisy, but some of his "she's my partner" statements came across as being paternalistic. I like his relationship with Elena, and, as I like Elena, I am glad that this helps bring her into the core of the show. He also redeemed one of his early bad moments by finally becoming a FitzSimmons shipper and conveniently "unloading the quinjet" for them. (I suspect that he "unloaded the quinjet" for Hunter and Morse as often as the two of them pulled the "my coms are out" trick.) Finally, I like the episode with his and his brother more than some people on this board does. The show needs to invest some time in exploring the characters. The fourth season contains what I consider to be his worst moment on the show: his lecturing Fitz about being a mad scientist. Admittedly, Mack was not entirely wrong. I would go so far as to say that S.H.I.E.L.D. (the organization, not the show) would have been better off if it fired Fitz during the final commercial break of the second season. This would mean that Simmons would not go to Maveth, Hive would not return from Maveth, and LMD and Framework programs would not be nearly as advanced. However, it was not Mack's job to deliver that lecture. Mace, Coulson, or Simmons should have delivered the lecture. Furthermore, Mack went beyond Fitz's specific actions to lines like "the line between scientist and mad scientist is paper thin." I am not employed as a scientist, but I was trained as one. That was a personal attack on me. I liked his arc in the Framework. He also may deserve a bit of credit for not sabotaging Daisy's support of Fitz toward the end of the season finale. So far in the fifth season, I cannot recall him making any prejudiced statements, but that could just be my memory. He was a good mentor to Flint, and he deserves a lot of credit for overthrowing Kasius. Overall, he does a good job when he is working with the other characters. He is at his worst when he is used as the voice of prejudice on the show. I disagree about him being needed as a counter to Coulson. May is already good at that job. As a result, I believe that he is more expendable than the other main characters, I hope that budget cuts do not reach the core cast of the show. However, if one of the main characters has to go, I would drop him before I drop Fitz, Simmons, Coulson, May, or Daisy, perhaps even before dropping Elena. Great post, I enjoyed reading it. Very well thought out, and on point. I will reply in more depth when I get home next week to both this and caseyrook AKA Mechelle's original question. |
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Post by Jemma Simmons on Feb 28, 2018 3:32:27 GMT
I've not made a big secret that Mack is... not my favourite character. He's starting to grow on me. My issue is that every time I start to warm to him, he does something jerk-ish to make me remember why I'm not fond of him.
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Post by caseyrook AKA Mechelle on Feb 28, 2018 5:15:03 GMT
I've not made a big secret that Mack is... not my favourite character. He's starting to grow on me. My issue is that every time I start to warm to him, he does something jerk-ish to make me remember why I'm not fond of him. Hey, reverse that and you have me and Coulson! |
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Post by Black Widow on Mar 17, 2018 10:36:38 GMT
Mack's okay. He's loyal to S.H.I.E.L.D. He treats Yo-Yo well. Even after her injury, he doesn't try to condescend her. A man of peace who isn't afraid to kick a little ass when needed (which is often lol). I would trust that he would defend an Infinity Gem with his life. Honorable. Strong. So yeah, Mack's Okay. |
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Post by Jemma Simmons on Mar 17, 2018 15:59:10 GMT
You know, after this season especially, I’m starting to like Mack as a character. He started to grow on me last season, until he went all jerk on Fitz about the Framework. This season, he’s actually been pretty awesome.
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Post by beren44 on Mar 18, 2018 0:02:53 GMT
You know, after this season especially, I’m starting to like Mack as a character. He started to grow on me last season, until he went all jerk on Fitz about the Framework. This season, he’s actually been pretty awesome. I've played that game for seasons. My money is gonna ride on 'he will have a jerk moment soon enough'. Still, great acting job by Henry without a doubt. |
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Post by Hari Seldon on Mar 18, 2018 20:27:54 GMT
Mack's okay. He's loyal to S.H.I.E.L.D. He treats Yo-Yo well. Even after her injury, he doesn't try to condescend her. A man of peace who isn't afraid to kick a little ass when needed (which is often lol). I would trust that he would defend an Infinity Gem with his life. Honorable. Strong. So yeah, Mack's Okay. As Dr. Streiten would say, while the Bible is quite specific about killing, it is somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps.  |
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Post by beren44 on Mar 18, 2018 23:05:45 GMT
Mack's okay. He's loyal to S.H.I.E.L.D. He treats Yo-Yo well. Even after her injury, he doesn't try to condescend her. A man of peace who isn't afraid to kick a little ass when needed (which is often lol). I would trust that he would defend an Infinity Gem with his life. Honorable. Strong. So yeah, Mack's Okay. As Dr. Streiten would say, while the Bible is quite specific about killing, it is somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps. I could have sworn Shepard Book said that.. 😉 Which reminds me to pick on caseyrook AKA Mechelle a bit. Face your self imposed challenges, swallow both the blue pill and the red pill, and watch the 13 or so wonderful hours of what the rest of us know as Firefly/Serenity. You are truly doing yourself an unnecessary injustice. Love ya anyway, but just make the leap. You can do it! |
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Post by beren44 on Mar 19, 2018 3:10:13 GMT
Mack's okay. He's loyal to S.H.I.E.L.D. He treats Yo-Yo well. Even after her injury, he doesn't try to condescend her. A man of peace who isn't afraid to kick a little ass when needed (which is often lol). I would trust that he would defend an Infinity Gem with his life. Honorable. Strong. So yeah, Mack's Okay. As Dr. Streiten would say, while the Bible is quite specific about killing, it is somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps. Saw a funny meme recently on fb..you might appreciate it, given your (spot on) views of the NFL. Pic of Nancy Kerrigan and Tony Harding...caption.."Back in our day, when you took a knee, YOU TOOK A KNEE!" 😁 |
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Post by caseyrook AKA Mechelle on Mar 19, 2018 18:17:09 GMT
As Dr. Streiten would say, while the Bible is quite specific about killing, it is somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps. I could have sworn Shepard Book said that.. 😉 Which reminds me to pick on caseyrook AKA Mechelle a bit. Face your self imposed challenges, swallow both the blue pill and the red pill, and watch the 13 or so wonderful hours of what the rest of us know as Firefly/Serenity. You are truly doing yourself an unnecessary injustice. Love ya anyway, but just make the leap. You can do it! Have you noticed I haven't been around much? There's a reason for that. I'm failing grammar. I don't have time for watching 13 hours of TV right now. I barely have time to watch AoS, even with skipping all the Ward parts in the earlier seasons. ^But of course I have time to watch the new episodes, only because I *make* time as always. |
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Post by beren44 on Mar 19, 2018 19:01:55 GMT
I could have sworn Shepard Book said that.. 😉 Which reminds me to pick on caseyrook AKA Mechelle a bit. Face your self imposed challenges, swallow both the blue pill and the red pill, and watch the 13 or so wonderful hours of what the rest of us know as Firefly/Serenity. You are truly doing yourself an unnecessary injustice. Love ya anyway, but just make the leap. You can do it! Have you noticed I haven't been around much? There's a reason for that. I'm failing grammar. I don't have time for watching 13 hours of TV right now. I barely have time to watch AoS, even with skipping all the Ward parts in the earlier seasons. ^But of course I have time to watch the new episodes, only because I *make* time as always. Well as I have noted before, studies come first, always! Best of luck, I am rooting for you. If I can be of help in any way, just let me know. |
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Post by caseyrook AKA Mechelle on Mar 19, 2018 19:22:47 GMT
Have you noticed I haven't been around much? There's a reason for that. I'm failing grammar. I don't have time for watching 13 hours of TV right now. I barely have time to watch AoS, even with skipping all the Ward parts in the earlier seasons. ^But of course I have time to watch the new episodes, only because I *make* time as always. Well as I have noted before, studies come first, always! Best of luck, I am rooting for you. If I can be of help in any way, just let me know. Not unless you can force my brain to be able to tell the difference between an adjective clause, a noun clause, and an adverb clause... Oh and German class is only going slightly better... |
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