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Post by caseyrook AKA Mechelle on Feb 26, 2017 18:34:45 GMT
Agreed, Mace was just a place holder for Daisy. Since Aida is removing regrets, I bet Mace will be a real powered person in the framework. I also bet he will sacrifice himself to get everyone else out. This will (finally) clear the path for Daisy to take the throne. As executed Mace was a placeholder for Coulson to take back control of SHIELD so that it could return to being agenda driven by Coulson's distractions (Raising Daisy Johnson like he is some kind of absentee divorced father and Daisy pushing back to show she is a grown woman not needing his help any more), and not the safety of the people he was sworn to protect. Oh, I forgot SHIELD has no idea just what they are doing or why they are doing it any more. SHIELD doesn't drive the narrative they just play off of whatever shiny keys are placed in front of them and the characters have to react tot them. Those darn writers!! When the reins are turned over to Daisy it will be Coulson that will do it or it will go through Coulson so that her ascension has some hint of legitimacy. The same way that it was Fury who bequeathed the keys to Coulson. Coulson never earned his position he was given it. My least favorite aspect of the show is the Cult of personality that surrounds Phil Coulson. The team disliked Mace because he wasn't Coulson and some of the fans of AoS were okay with that.   I'm not saying that the team wasn't acting childish in the beginning of the season, nor am I saying that I was okay with it. But, I understand why the team had a problem with Mace. They'd been betrayed enough to know when they were being lied too (and they were courtesy of Mr. HYDE-Serum) and they'd always had eachother's back, no good would come from splitting them up. They all have serious trust issues. Again, I'm not defending the team, I just think time and trust could have been saved if Mace/Talbot had come clean in the first place. |
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Post by ayanami on Feb 26, 2017 18:45:53 GMT
As executed Mace was a placeholder for Coulson to take back control of SHIELD so that it could return to being agenda driven by Coulson's distractions (Raising Daisy Johnson like he is some kind of absentee divorced father and Daisy pushing back to show she is a grown woman not needing his help any more), and not the safety of the people he was sworn to protect. Oh, I forgot SHIELD has no idea just what they are doing or why they are doing it any more. SHIELD doesn't drive the narrative they just play off of whatever shiny keys are placed in front of them and the characters have to react tot them. Those darn writers!! When the reins are turned over to Daisy it will be Coulson that will do it or it will go through Coulson so that her ascension has some hint of legitimacy. The same way that it was Fury who bequeathed the keys to Coulson. Coulson never earned his position he was given it. My least favorite aspect of the show is the Cult of personality that surrounds Phil Coulson. The team disliked Mace because he wasn't Coulson and some of the fans of AoS were okay with that. I'm not saying that the team wasn't acting childish in the beginning of the season, nor am I saying that I was okay with it. But, I understand why the team had a problem with Mace. They'd been betrayed enough to know when they were being lied too (and they were courtesy of Mr. HYDE-Serum) and they'd always had eachother's back, no good would come from splitting them up. They all have serious trust issues. Again, I'm not defending the team, I just think time and trust could have been saved if Mace/Talbot had come clean in the first place. That and - as much as I like him now - Mace did come of as a pretty two-faced bureaucrat in the beginning. Spouting corny slogans about trust, replacing the Shield rankings with rainbow colours, but at the same time splitting up the team and demanding daily polygraph tests from Simmons. As much as he was demanding it, he certainly wasn't inducing much trust and confidence in his administration. |
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Post by NorrinRaddOfZennla on Feb 26, 2017 18:48:18 GMT
As executed Mace was a placeholder for Coulson to take back control of SHIELD so that it could return to being agenda driven by Coulson's distractions (Raising Daisy Johnson like he is some kind of absentee divorced father and Daisy pushing back to show she is a grown woman not needing his help any more), and not the safety of the people he was sworn to protect. Oh, I forgot SHIELD has no idea just what they are doing or why they are doing it any more. SHIELD doesn't drive the narrative they just play off of whatever shiny keys are placed in front of them and the characters have to react tot them. Those darn writers!! When the reins are turned over to Daisy it will be Coulson that will do it or it will go through Coulson so that her ascension has some hint of legitimacy. The same way that it was Fury who bequeathed the keys to Coulson. Coulson never earned his position he was given it. My least favorite aspect of the show is the Cult of personality that surrounds Phil Coulson. The team disliked Mace because he wasn't Coulson and some of the fans of AoS were okay with that. I'm not saying that the team wasn't acting childish in the beginning of the season, nor am I saying that I was okay with it. But, I understand why the team had a problem with Mace. They'd been betrayed enough to know when they were being lied too (and they were courtesy of Mr. HYDE-Serum) and they'd always had eachother's back, no good would come from splitting them up. They all have serious trust issues. Again, I'm not defending the team, I just think time and trust could have been saved if Mace/Talbot had come clean in the first place. |
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Post by DoTheMath on Feb 26, 2017 18:52:35 GMT
That is so season one-ish. And two-ish. My favourite seasons, so I see nothing wrong here.  Give it up, Koos. Not even The Darkhold will sway her on this issue.  |
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Post by NorrinRaddOfZennla on Feb 26, 2017 19:00:39 GMT
I truly understand that POV and the team's POV but as an innocent bystander the team came across as disrespectful of the Position of Director (regardless of who held the position), insubordinate in not following direct orders and responding with malicious compliance, actively under-mined missions for their own personal agendas and putting others at risk for no reason but their owns. In a chain of command Trust need not be earned by the person in charge because SHIELD wasn't and isn't a democracy. Mace wasn't accountable to the team he was RESPONSIBLE for the team.
Coulson became and continues to rule SHIELD based on the very aspects that allowed SHIELD to be infiltrated by HYDRA, lack of accountability and transparency. Mace was asked to do a job and was undermined by the team. Because Mace was asked to lead SHIELD and the fact that HE followed orders and was called out by the team for not being truthful is the height of hypocrisy, and the End-result didn't justify their feelings nor their actions and that is me objectively speaking and judging the team from afar.
For Mace he was given a mission. The team had their marching orders but refused them. Now it turns out that the serum might very well be killing him but it appears that Mace believes so much in what he is doing he is putting his life on the line. The team on the other hands have hurt feelings because they were being mislead about Mace being an Inhuman? And just what was their mission or agenda?
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Post by DoTheMath on Feb 26, 2017 19:30:40 GMT
I truly understand that POV and the team's POV but as an innocent bystander the team came across as disrespectful of the Position of Director (regardless of who held the position), insubordinate in not following direct orders and responding with malicious compliance, actively under-mined missions for their own personal agendas and putting others at risk for no reason but their owns. In a chain of command (1.)Trust need not be earned by the person in charge because SHIELD wasn't and isn't a democracy. (2.)Mace wasn't accountable to the team he was RESPONSIBLE for the team.Coulson became and continues to (3.)rule SHIELD based on the very aspects that allowed SHIELD to be infiltrated by HYDRA, (4.)lack of accountability and transparency. (5.)Mace was asked to do a job and was undermined by the team. Because Mace was asked to lead SHIELD and the fact that HE followed orders and was called out by the team for not being truthful is the height of hypocrisy, and the End-result didn't justify their feelings nor their actions and that is me objectively speaking and judging the team from afar. For Mace he was given a mission. The team had their marching orders but refused them. (6.)Now it turns out that the serum might very well be killing him but it appears that Mace believes so much in what he is doing he is putting his life on the line. The team on the other hands have hurt feelings because they were being mislead about Mace being an Inhuman? And just what was their mission or agenda? I've followed you on this journey for quite a while now and rarely chime in, but.... 1. I disagree. Trust IS earned regardless the hierarchy. Not saying they weren't insubordinate; just saying that position does not automatically engender trust. Trust is most definitely earned. 2. Responsible? Yes; it's an inherent part leadership. Accountable? Yes; to the point that your team holds you accountable for your decisions and use data to decide whether or not they trust you. 3. Interesting choice of words...... 4a. Accountability used in a positive light and previously in a more negative light. Which is it? Which do you expect from senior leadership, accountability or none? 4b. Transparency from senior leadership in a spy agency is a non-sequitur. 5. True. They undermined because they didn't trust him. Still insubordination, but it was due to lack of trust. 6. True. He has now earned their trust in spite of his (actually Talbot's) lie. Unfortunately, that lie cost him his position (which I think he gave up too easily). |
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Post by koos on Feb 26, 2017 19:53:02 GMT
And two-ish. My favourite seasons, so I see nothing wrong here. Give it up, Koos. Not even The Darkhold will sway her on this issue. yeah, you right. It's useless to try. |
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Post by ayanami on Feb 26, 2017 20:16:59 GMT
And two-ish. My favourite seasons, so I see nothing wrong here. Give it up, Koos. Not even The Darkhold will sway her on this issue. Pretty sure I could convince the Darkhold that her name needs to be changed back to Skye. The other way around? Not a chance!  |
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Post by DoTheMath on Feb 26, 2017 20:28:48 GMT
koos Give it up, Koos. Not even The Darkhold will sway her on this issue. Pretty sure I could convince the Darkhold that her name needs to be changed back to Skye. The other way around? Not a chance! That's why you can't have The Precious. |
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Post by koos on Feb 26, 2017 20:50:12 GMT
Pretty sure I could convince the Darkhold that her name needs to be changed back to Skye. The other way around? Not a chance! That's why you can't have The Precious. You know, I prefer to call her Mary Sue Poots |
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Post by ayanami on Feb 26, 2017 21:36:46 GMT
That's why you can't have The Precious. You know, I prefer to call her Mary Sue Poots Still better than that other name. |
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Post by TommyWizard on Feb 26, 2017 21:59:16 GMT
koos Give it up, Koos. Not even The Darkhold will sway her on this issue. Pretty sure I could convince the Darkhold that her name needs to be changed back to Skye. The other way around? Not a chance! I think what you need is the Reality Stone, i don't think that even the Darkhold could achieve that. |
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Post by koos on Feb 26, 2017 22:15:53 GMT
You know, I prefer to call her Mary Sue Poots Still better than that other name. And what about Quake? |
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Post by ayanami on Feb 26, 2017 22:29:31 GMT
Still better than that other name. And what about Quake? Quake is completely fine. I have no problems with that codename. You know, this whole discussion is making me wonder what the hell Skye's name is in the matrix. If she had her biggest regret removed, that would probably have been growing up without her parents. So she would have been Daisy Johnson all her life. But Skye wasn't put into the framework by Aida, so the changes in her surroundings should only be the result of what happened to Coulson and the others. Without Coulson, was Skye ever recruited by Shield? Did she ever find her dad? Her mom? Afterlife? Did she go through terrigenesis? Does she know her given name or is she actually still going by 'Skye'? Damn, I can't wait for the new episodes! |
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Post by koos on Feb 26, 2017 22:40:32 GMT
And what about Quake? Quake is completely fine. I have no problems with that codename. You know, this whole discussion is making me wonder what the hell Skye's name is in the matrix. If she had her biggest regret removed, that would probably have been growing up without her parents. So she would have been Daisy Johnson all her life. But Skye wasn't put into the framework by Aida, so the changes in her surroundings should only be the result of what happened to Coulson and the others. Without Coulson, was Skye ever recruited by Shield? Did she ever find her dad? Her mom? Afterlife? Did she go through terrigenesis? Does she know her given name or is she actually still going by 'Skye'? Damn, I can't wait for the new episodes! I also think that is her greatest regret. If they changed that would be a big game-changer, because it probably mean that there was never an attack from Whitehall on their town and her mother/father would be still mentally okay. However, she sneaked in the framework so AIDA never removed a regret. |
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