Response to @backroadjunkie's, @ayanami's, @aquaangel's Rev
Nov 12, 2017 18:21:00 GMT
Jemma Simmons likes this
Post by DoTheMath on Nov 12, 2017 18:21:00 GMT
Responding to three threads, so decided to consolidate in a single new thread.........
backroadjunkie:
It seemed another wasted opportunity, like Agent Carter. (I still think S2 of Agent Carter should have been the formation of SHIELD...)
I will agree that S2 of AC was a waste, but at least it had the strong foundation of S1. As for "the formation of SHIELD", if they knew S2 was the end, then they should have done it then; if not, S3 would have worked for me, if S2 hadn't been such a turd........
I understand that they didn't have a lot of time to develop the show, but much of the storyline seemed unnecessary, and too sprawling. There were a half dozen non-connected storylines that had to be attended to in less than 45 minutes for most of the season. The eight episodes probably would have been better told in 4 or 5 eps. What was the point of Gorgon's gang? The pot farm? Aquaman Neptune Triton's almost non-existent storyline? I wonder if the script was changed halfway through shooting...
SHort version: The Writing Sucked!
Now, I will add that all the sneak-peaks from Marvel say "Season 1" in the title. If Marvel got ABC to agree to more than one season because they knew S1 would suffer from the short development time, then it might all turn out okay. They did leave some major stuff lying around unsolved. But on its own, I can't see a Season 2, unless ABC really needs to fill those 8 weeks.
Weirdly, the finale did leave me wanting more as I can see the potential for a, not great but) good show in S2 . There's so much potential for a second season that they could actually save the show. I doubt they'd ever attract non-genre viewers, but Marvel fans would watch if they get their sh!t together. The only hope for a successful series is new showrunner and writers (and directors that know how to get the best out of their actors).
Daisy's story though Agents of SHIELD pretty much defined Inhumanism and what they are, so the show only needed to set up the power structure. It did seem the way Inhumans work was consistent between the shows.
I'll address this in my comments at the end of this very long thread....
I wonder if Medusa lost her hair early because they couldn't deal with the hair.
One of my biggest problems with the show was Medusa sans hair. What's the use? Let's take the most powerful woman in Atilan and nerf her down to a normal human..... I'm sure they did it because of budgetary restraints. We KNOW that the CGI could be properly done on TV, look at what AoS accomplishes on a weekly basis. However, CGI for hair, done properly, would be VERY expensive. Medusa'a hair is an extension, and expression, of herself and is constantly on the move in a seemingly independent way. So let's save money by doing a crappy representation of her hair then shave her head.......
Maximus. Sucked everyone in with noble intentions, then turned into a schmuck. They should have killed him. It's been proven over and over that if you leave the bad guy alive, he's gonna come back to bite you in the end.
I saw through Maximus right away, but that's not what bothered me; the actor SUCKED.
Yes, the "never leave the bad guy alive" trope is definitely in play here. If, and it's a big IF, the show survives.... and IF they bring him back...... they better have let him pass through terrigenisis somehow...... and had a physical transformation (so they can use a different actor)...... so they can have a worthwhile villain.
There is now a ruined city on the Moon that wasn't there before. That's probably going to make the news...
This is Marvel Television. Don't be so sure....... There's a dark dimension somewhere that sucks in obvious continuity issues and akes the Marvel TV execs think we'll forget about them.....
We don't know who the ultimate benefactor on Earth is, other than the "Callisto Aerospace Control Center". Stark? Whoever it is, has control of all the terrigen crystals. Does anyone else smell a rat here?
It won't be Stark, AIM or anyone else like that, but it will be a nefarious narcissist who believes he has honorable intentions but is a complete psychotic. Think: Darren Cross, Ivan Vanko, Alexander Pierce, John Garrett, Jiaying, Baron Zemo, Adrian Toomes....... Maybe not all great examples, but you get the idea. I Intentionally left out the obvious Hydra baddiees....
The "other" enemy revealed in Ep 8. Probably the Kree, since the Kree consider Inhumans debris and worth tracking down to destroy. There were blue guys in the AoS trailer during the show. Kree? Cross-overs between the shows seem inevitable if the team ever gets back to Earth, even if there's no S2. (And the AoS trailer was excellent.)
My money is on the Kree. Marvel TV and ABC seem to love them and it would fit that they have a battle with the Kree on Earth (but I shudder to think of how Marvel will expect us to believe that no other Marvel porperty would be aware of that battle.....)
I wouldn't mind a season 2, it's not Agents of SHIELD, but it's probably better than some other filler ABC might show on a Friday night...
I agree(ish), kinda, sorta, I guess....
The best best would be that if this is the last season of AoS, they let the AoS crew take over this show........
ayanami:
1. An entire eight episode season has not once managed to make me care about the "heroes". Despite being kind of a whiny jerk at times, Maximus remained the only one in the cast I actually gave a damn about.
Although we often agree on many issues (gee, that sounded kind of Trumpian, huh? ), I differ with you on Maximus. I'm at the far end of the other spectrum. Never cared about, or for, the character. Oh well.... "to each, their own."
However, I do agree that it was hard to make an emotional connection to the "family."
2. No-one except Medusa being able to understand Black Bolt's sign language and the laughable "revelation" that Maximus actually did learn it years ago. Wow, you'd really think that at least his own family would want to be able to understand what the guy was saying, right? What about his parents? The genetic council? This was so stupid!
Not the first time you've brought this up and I do agree. Even if that's he way it is in the comics (don't know, haven't read them), it just didn't work on this show.
3. Not only does Maximus share a lot of similarities with Loki, but
(SPOILER)
Really creative, guys!
I commented on this in another thread. It's sad, really that there were so many similarities.....
NOTE: I didn't read the spoiler, so I shan't comment further
4. Maximus losing his sh*t, because Medusa took the terrigenisis crystals and destroyed the one she was offering to give him. Did nobody tell the guy he could simply go to Earth and buy a box of fish oil capsules to get the same effect?
Speaks of issues with universal continuity that I'll address at the end of this very long thread.
5. Dr. Declan not knowing about terrigenisis. The guy has apparently been studying inhumans for quite a while now, and it's not like they're a rare occurrence on Earth any longer, so why does he still have no clue about how they get their powers? (Not talking about the crystals, but the general effect.)
See my comment above about the dark dimension where Marvel TV believes we have bad memories....
6. Crystal's spray-paint hair. A better make-up artist should have been able to give that a more natural look.
Agree, along with the poor costuming you've mentioned in past threads. Atrocious!
7. Sh*tty, boring and/or unlikable characters in general. Everyone falls into this category for a different amount of times/episodes, but Karnak wins the race without a doubt! Horrible guy!
Agreed. Speaks to: bad writing? Bad direction? Bad acting? All of the above?
8. Super simplistic plot that might have been copied right from the initial movie script, made much worse by being dragged out at a snail's pace over eight episodes.
Agreed.**Hey, we're on a roll....**
9. Louise and her superior only referring to their employer as "the boss" in an extremely forced manner to provide some sort of mystery here. (Probably will be touched on in AoS, would be my guess. Maybe it's Coulson? Fury? S.W.O.R.D.? A.I.M.?)
Yeah, mystery seed planted with Louise's boss saying the "Boss" will want exclusive access to the Inhumans.......
I seriously doubt the "Boss" will be any any of those you listed (see my reply to backroadjunkie, above). However, a little AIM wouldn't hurt the ratings.
10. Lame interior design of Attilan. Also, those white-hooded people sitting around the control room. What was their purpose? What are they doing there??
Filling their role in the caste system? ......... But, yeah, at least a brief explanation would have been nice. What are they gonna do on Earth? Sit around a bathtub?
11. Terrible financial planning: IMAX release and Hawaiian setting on the one hand, crappy sets, not enough money for proper CGI (Medusa's hair,...) on the other. Which is it Marvel? Did you guys want to make this show or not??
Well said. I think the answer is: Pulmutter wanted it and hopefully this will be reason enough to fire his ass.
12. That "Do you remember our first meeting" scene between Medusa and Black Bolt in the finale with the images from the flackback lain over the entire dialogue. This scene felt like something a film school student would do in their first year, but not a professional Hollywood production!
Every flashback scene and romantic scene with Blackbolt and Medusa was (and here's a term I don't like to use,, but it fits) cringe-worthy. Just SO poorly done.
aquaangel:
Well, that seems like a good place to leave it if it doesn't get a second season. Except we are left with the unanswered question of what threat is Blackbolt the best defense for (the reason only he could be king)?
Best guess is the Kree and Blackbolt had important info passed down to him from King-to-King-to-King, etc. etc. and as the most powerful Inhuman it's his "destiny" to be King and confrontthe threat. (cough, cough - overused trope - cough, cough)
Triton is bad@$$. Loved the scenes of him fighting the guards. Pity he was only in three episodes. That earlier poll about which character you'd wish to join Shield... Triton is probably in a very close second with Lockjaw. Can we keep them both? Lol.
Triton is probably the best character (and best portrayed) but it's hard to tell since he was so severely under-utilized.
And, yes, I agree he'd be awesome on AoS.
Now or my rant:
First:
"Terrigen crystals are what defines us."
What a load of horse sh!t! Really? No wonder the royals don't know how to lead/govern. Proof positive that the writing on this show has been....... oh, hell..... I'll just say it: The Writing SUCKS!
Now for the big drawn out rant:
Marvel needs to decide what it wants its universe to be. Is it "all connected" or not?
The Inhumans show alluded to AoS by mentioning "the terrigen spread in the oceans" and the fact that Inhumans on Earth are, although impure, part of the Inhuman race, but left out their own history and origin story. Some times they (Marvel) seem to want to show a connection but also often worry too much about everything being a stand-alone property. Pick one, Marvel.
Did they not mention the Kree because AoS covered it? If they want a stand-alone, then they should have paid more attention to the history and origin of the Inhumans. If they want a "connection" then they should have made a stronger connection. Like ayanami said above, who/what do you want to be Marvel?
We know the movies ARE the universe. They've made that perfectly clear..... but there's no continuity to their "connections."
Netflix subtly acknowledges the movies, AoS acknowledges Agent Carter (both Movie and TV) and subtly acknowledges Netflix, Inhumans subtly acknowledges AoS (I mean, it HAD to, right?) but no mention of Netflix or Movies.
Now, I've said before that the MCU is the Marvel Cinematic Universe and TV and streaming are a part of that universe. So the universe doesn't have to acknowledge the lesser properties (I call them galaxies) but the lesser do have to acknowledge the universe. It's like the human race questioning where they fit in, in the universe.... but the universe is indifferent to it all.
And, really, it's not even galaxies because Netflix and AoS/AC/Inhumans all exit on the same planet, at the same time. I kind of understand Nextflix shows being stand-alones, but if they're going to acknowledge the movies, they should acknowledge the rest of the properties as well; especially since they're made-for-TV. ABC, being a Disney property, does a good, sometimes great, job of this - especially AoS. So is ABC the linch-pin for the universe or is it just AoS? Inhumans, being on ABC, should have done better at explaining where it fits in and made more use of the lore already explained by AoS, or it should have gone completely stand-alone and told its own origin story and history. I see this as one of the reasons it was difficult to "connect" with the show....... because Marvel still hasn't figured out how they want to define "connection." It's only been, what?..... 10 years, with 16(?) movies, 8 TV series (with more on the way)? I think it's time Marvel decides to learn the definition of "connected." Maybe they can look up the definition of continuity to get hem started......
With that said along with everything else mentioned in these reviews, I think backroadjunkie made the best observation:
"(And the AoS trailer was excellent.)"
I couldn't agree more!
Is it December first, yet?
BTW: Good to get your take on the show backroad; where ya been?
backroadjunkie:
It seemed another wasted opportunity, like Agent Carter. (I still think S2 of Agent Carter should have been the formation of SHIELD...)
I will agree that S2 of AC was a waste, but at least it had the strong foundation of S1. As for "the formation of SHIELD", if they knew S2 was the end, then they should have done it then; if not, S3 would have worked for me, if S2 hadn't been such a turd........
I understand that they didn't have a lot of time to develop the show, but much of the storyline seemed unnecessary, and too sprawling. There were a half dozen non-connected storylines that had to be attended to in less than 45 minutes for most of the season. The eight episodes probably would have been better told in 4 or 5 eps. What was the point of Gorgon's gang? The pot farm? Aquaman Neptune Triton's almost non-existent storyline? I wonder if the script was changed halfway through shooting...
SHort version: The Writing Sucked!
Now, I will add that all the sneak-peaks from Marvel say "Season 1" in the title. If Marvel got ABC to agree to more than one season because they knew S1 would suffer from the short development time, then it might all turn out okay. They did leave some major stuff lying around unsolved. But on its own, I can't see a Season 2, unless ABC really needs to fill those 8 weeks.
Weirdly, the finale did leave me wanting more as I can see the potential for a, not great but) good show in S2 . There's so much potential for a second season that they could actually save the show. I doubt they'd ever attract non-genre viewers, but Marvel fans would watch if they get their sh!t together. The only hope for a successful series is new showrunner and writers (and directors that know how to get the best out of their actors).
Daisy's story though Agents of SHIELD pretty much defined Inhumanism and what they are, so the show only needed to set up the power structure. It did seem the way Inhumans work was consistent between the shows.
I'll address this in my comments at the end of this very long thread....
I wonder if Medusa lost her hair early because they couldn't deal with the hair.
One of my biggest problems with the show was Medusa sans hair. What's the use? Let's take the most powerful woman in Atilan and nerf her down to a normal human..... I'm sure they did it because of budgetary restraints. We KNOW that the CGI could be properly done on TV, look at what AoS accomplishes on a weekly basis. However, CGI for hair, done properly, would be VERY expensive. Medusa'a hair is an extension, and expression, of herself and is constantly on the move in a seemingly independent way. So let's save money by doing a crappy representation of her hair then shave her head.......
Maximus. Sucked everyone in with noble intentions, then turned into a schmuck. They should have killed him. It's been proven over and over that if you leave the bad guy alive, he's gonna come back to bite you in the end.
I saw through Maximus right away, but that's not what bothered me; the actor SUCKED.
Yes, the "never leave the bad guy alive" trope is definitely in play here. If, and it's a big IF, the show survives.... and IF they bring him back...... they better have let him pass through terrigenisis somehow...... and had a physical transformation (so they can use a different actor)...... so they can have a worthwhile villain.
There is now a ruined city on the Moon that wasn't there before. That's probably going to make the news...
This is Marvel Television. Don't be so sure....... There's a dark dimension somewhere that sucks in obvious continuity issues and akes the Marvel TV execs think we'll forget about them.....
We don't know who the ultimate benefactor on Earth is, other than the "Callisto Aerospace Control Center". Stark? Whoever it is, has control of all the terrigen crystals. Does anyone else smell a rat here?
It won't be Stark, AIM or anyone else like that, but it will be a nefarious narcissist who believes he has honorable intentions but is a complete psychotic. Think: Darren Cross, Ivan Vanko, Alexander Pierce, John Garrett, Jiaying, Baron Zemo, Adrian Toomes....... Maybe not all great examples, but you get the idea. I Intentionally left out the obvious Hydra baddiees....
The "other" enemy revealed in Ep 8. Probably the Kree, since the Kree consider Inhumans debris and worth tracking down to destroy. There were blue guys in the AoS trailer during the show. Kree? Cross-overs between the shows seem inevitable if the team ever gets back to Earth, even if there's no S2. (And the AoS trailer was excellent.)
My money is on the Kree. Marvel TV and ABC seem to love them and it would fit that they have a battle with the Kree on Earth (but I shudder to think of how Marvel will expect us to believe that no other Marvel porperty would be aware of that battle.....)
I wouldn't mind a season 2, it's not Agents of SHIELD, but it's probably better than some other filler ABC might show on a Friday night...
I agree(ish), kinda, sorta, I guess....
The best best would be that if this is the last season of AoS, they let the AoS crew take over this show........
ayanami:
1. An entire eight episode season has not once managed to make me care about the "heroes". Despite being kind of a whiny jerk at times, Maximus remained the only one in the cast I actually gave a damn about.
Although we often agree on many issues (gee, that sounded kind of Trumpian, huh?
), I differ with you on Maximus. I'm at the far end of the other spectrum. Never cared about, or for, the character. Oh well.... "to each, their own."However, I do agree that it was hard to make an emotional connection to the "family."
2. No-one except Medusa being able to understand Black Bolt's sign language and the laughable "revelation" that Maximus actually did learn it years ago. Wow, you'd really think that at least his own family would want to be able to understand what the guy was saying, right? What about his parents? The genetic council? This was so stupid!
Not the first time you've brought this up and I do agree. Even if that's he way it is in the comics (don't know, haven't read them), it just didn't work on this show.
3. Not only does Maximus share a lot of similarities with Loki, but
(SPOILER)
Really creative, guys!
I commented on this in another thread. It's sad, really that there were so many similarities.....
NOTE: I didn't read the spoiler, so I shan't comment further
4. Maximus losing his sh*t, because Medusa took the terrigenisis crystals and destroyed the one she was offering to give him. Did nobody tell the guy he could simply go to Earth and buy a box of fish oil capsules to get the same effect?
Speaks of issues with universal continuity that I'll address at the end of this very long thread.
5. Dr. Declan not knowing about terrigenisis. The guy has apparently been studying inhumans for quite a while now, and it's not like they're a rare occurrence on Earth any longer, so why does he still have no clue about how they get their powers? (Not talking about the crystals, but the general effect.)
See my comment above about the dark dimension where Marvel TV believes we have bad memories....
6. Crystal's spray-paint hair. A better make-up artist should have been able to give that a more natural look.
Agree, along with the poor costuming you've mentioned in past threads. Atrocious!
7. Sh*tty, boring and/or unlikable characters in general. Everyone falls into this category for a different amount of times/episodes, but Karnak wins the race without a doubt! Horrible guy!
Agreed. Speaks to: bad writing? Bad direction? Bad acting? All of the above?
8. Super simplistic plot that might have been copied right from the initial movie script, made much worse by being dragged out at a snail's pace over eight episodes.
Agreed.**Hey, we're on a roll....**
9. Louise and her superior only referring to their employer as "the boss" in an extremely forced manner to provide some sort of mystery here. (Probably will be touched on in AoS, would be my guess. Maybe it's Coulson? Fury? S.W.O.R.D.? A.I.M.?)
Yeah, mystery seed planted with Louise's boss saying the "Boss" will want exclusive access to the Inhumans.......
I seriously doubt the "Boss" will be any any of those you listed (see my reply to backroadjunkie, above). However, a little AIM wouldn't hurt the ratings.
10. Lame interior design of Attilan. Also, those white-hooded people sitting around the control room. What was their purpose? What are they doing there??
Filling their role in the caste system?
......... But, yeah, at least a brief explanation would have been nice. What are they gonna do on Earth? Sit around a bathtub?11. Terrible financial planning: IMAX release and Hawaiian setting on the one hand, crappy sets, not enough money for proper CGI (Medusa's hair,...) on the other. Which is it Marvel? Did you guys want to make this show or not??
Well said. I think the answer is: Pulmutter wanted it and hopefully this will be reason enough to fire his ass.
12. That "Do you remember our first meeting" scene between Medusa and Black Bolt in the finale with the images from the flackback lain over the entire dialogue. This scene felt like something a film school student would do in their first year, but not a professional Hollywood production!
Every flashback scene and romantic scene with Blackbolt and Medusa was (and here's a term I don't like to use,, but it fits) cringe-worthy. Just SO poorly done.
aquaangel:
Well, that seems like a good place to leave it if it doesn't get a second season. Except we are left with the unanswered question of what threat is Blackbolt the best defense for (the reason only he could be king)?
Best guess is the Kree and Blackbolt had important info passed down to him from King-to-King-to-King, etc. etc. and as the most powerful Inhuman it's his "destiny" to be King and confrontthe threat. (cough, cough - overused trope - cough, cough)
Triton is bad@$$. Loved the scenes of him fighting the guards. Pity he was only in three episodes. That earlier poll about which character you'd wish to join Shield... Triton is probably in a very close second with Lockjaw. Can we keep them both? Lol.
Triton is probably the best character (and best portrayed) but it's hard to tell since he was so severely under-utilized.
And, yes, I agree he'd be awesome on AoS.
Now or my rant:
First:
"Terrigen crystals are what defines us."
What a load of horse sh!t! Really? No wonder the royals don't know how to lead/govern. Proof positive that the writing on this show has been....... oh, hell..... I'll just say it: The Writing SUCKS!
Now for the big drawn out rant:
Marvel needs to decide what it wants its universe to be. Is it "all connected" or not?
The Inhumans show alluded to AoS by mentioning "the terrigen spread in the oceans" and the fact that Inhumans on Earth are, although impure, part of the Inhuman race, but left out their own history and origin story. Some times they (Marvel) seem to want to show a connection but also often worry too much about everything being a stand-alone property. Pick one, Marvel.
Did they not mention the Kree because AoS covered it? If they want a stand-alone, then they should have paid more attention to the history and origin of the Inhumans. If they want a "connection" then they should have made a stronger connection. Like ayanami said above, who/what do you want to be Marvel?
We know the movies ARE the universe. They've made that perfectly clear..... but there's no continuity to their "connections."
Netflix subtly acknowledges the movies, AoS acknowledges Agent Carter (both Movie and TV) and subtly acknowledges Netflix, Inhumans subtly acknowledges AoS (I mean, it HAD to, right?) but no mention of Netflix or Movies.
Now, I've said before that the MCU is the Marvel Cinematic Universe and TV and streaming are a part of that universe. So the universe doesn't have to acknowledge the lesser properties (I call them galaxies) but the lesser do have to acknowledge the universe. It's like the human race questioning where they fit in, in the universe.... but the universe is indifferent to it all.
And, really, it's not even galaxies because Netflix and AoS/AC/Inhumans all exit on the same planet, at the same time. I kind of understand Nextflix shows being stand-alones, but if they're going to acknowledge the movies, they should acknowledge the rest of the properties as well; especially since they're made-for-TV. ABC, being a Disney property, does a good, sometimes great, job of this - especially AoS. So is ABC the linch-pin for the universe or is it just AoS? Inhumans, being on ABC, should have done better at explaining where it fits in and made more use of the lore already explained by AoS, or it should have gone completely stand-alone and told its own origin story and history. I see this as one of the reasons it was difficult to "connect" with the show....... because Marvel still hasn't figured out how they want to define "connection." It's only been, what?..... 10 years, with 16(?) movies, 8 TV series (with more on the way)? I think it's time Marvel decides to learn the definition of "connected." Maybe they can look up the definition of continuity to get hem started......
With that said along with everything else mentioned in these reviews, I think backroadjunkie made the best observation:
"(And the AoS trailer was excellent.)"
I couldn't agree more!
Is it December first, yet?
BTW: Good to get your take on the show backroad; where ya been?
