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Post by backroadjunkie on Jun 9, 2021 15:02:00 GMT
Awesome!
Didn't know what to expect from this series, but it looks like this is a step beyond WandaVision and FaWS.
Loki, Agent of T.V.A., lol...
(And on a more personal note, got my second WuFlu shot yesterday, and I think a train hit me sometime last night. Maybe it was a semi, lol... )
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Post by haxemon on Jun 10, 2021 12:27:18 GMT
Yes enjoyed it quite a bit. Had slipped my mind that it was dropping so was also a nice surprise when I remembered.
Looking forward to where they go with this. Lots of options to tie into future projects and characters and also give nods to the wider MCU.
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Post by backroadjunkie on Jun 10, 2021 20:38:44 GMT
Looking forward to where they go with this. Lots of options to tie into future projects and characters and also give nods to the wider MCU. And if you consider many of the variant timelines are uh... illegal, you can do anything with any characters because the timeline is a variant and can be erased. The series (sort of) lies outside the MCU. Even though I hate time travel, I'm really hoping they take a realistic approach to it. It could be quite good. I also really like the fact Loki will probably be a different character than in the movies. He was always such a dick in so many ways, but did redeem himself a few times. Now that he's finally seen his future and realized he's not a god (I have to keep reminding myself this is Loki right after the first Avengers movie), he might be just as fun without having to prove anything to anyone. Wonder if this is going to be an ongoing tale, or whether story arcs are seasonal, or even shorter. Oh, and I don't buy the Avenger's time travel was legit, lol. Loki was able to grab the tesseract because the Avengers screwed up. If what the Avengers did was legit, then Loki's escape was legit, too.
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Post by haxemon on Jun 11, 2021 2:04:23 GMT
Looking forward to where they go with this. Lots of options to tie into future projects and characters and also give nods to the wider MCU. And if you consider many of the variant timelines are uh... illegal, you can do anything with any characters because the timeline is a variant and can be erased. The series (sort of) lies outside the MCU. Even though I hate time travel, I'm really hoping they take a realistic approach to it. It could be quite good. I also really like the fact Loki will probably be a different character than in the movies. He was always such a dick in so many ways, but did redeem himself a few times. Now that he's finally seen his future and realized he's not a god (I have to keep reminding myself this is Loki right after the first Avengers movie), he might be just as fun without having to prove anything to anyone. Wonder if this is going to be an ongoing tale, or whether story arcs are seasonal, or even shorter. Oh, and I don't buy the Avenger's time travel was legit, lol. Loki was able to grab the tesseract because the Avengers screwed up. If what the Avengers did was legit, then Loki's escape was legit, too. I think they were okay with the Avenger's time heist since they returned all the stones (and of course they would have known they were going to). But I'm not sure how Loki using the space stone created a variant. He basically teleported like Thanos did a bunch of times in Infinity War. But maybe it's because the Avengers caused that and the TVA seem to only care about pruning the branches, not punishing the people that caused them. In fact, the more that I think of it, this is actually a clever way to tidy up the MCU (not that I believe it needs tidying). The rest of the time heist stuff was fine since Cap returned the stones, but Loki escaping with the Tesseract was "new" and significant since it also involved an infinity stone changing hands. So maybe that time thread was too big to "heal" on its own and was pruned. The whole "ripples" vs "waves" thing. Anyway, yes this could easily be a great set of stand-alone stories.
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Post by haxemon on Jun 11, 2021 11:49:41 GMT
One thing I really am happy about, is this first episode seems to confirm my own feelings on the timeline logic in the MCU. The splinters seem to "self-heal". The main timeline looks more like a rope than a string - i.e. several timelines that are super close together. The "variant" logic and the little iPhones they use to check them all seem to point to strands that won't self-heal and need to be pruned. It's actually almost like gardening. If you have branches where you want them, you leave them, but if you have strays or less healthy ones you prune them.
So the whole joke about how Cap would have had to inject Jane with the reality goo is pointless. I've always maintained that he could have basically showed up at or near the point they stole the reality stone and just chuck it in a corner somewhere and that branch probably re-heals. Or to be safe he can basically give it to Jane in stone form and the timeline would have had the dark elves still steal it, Thor still ultimately stop them etc.
Loki's a variant because when the time heist saw him (a formidable being if not a god) escape capture with the space stone, that was a branch that wasn't going to heal on its own. Too much of the timeline at that point relied on Loki being in Asgard and the space stone as well.
In theory, if they time cops had shown up in the desert with Loki and their iPhone had said the branch was already healing (i.e. maybe Nick Fury had already radioed Stark to tell him where they had detected the gamma signature of the tesseract so the 2012 Avengers could go catch Loki again) they may have just left it.
It's fun to think about Cap meeting Red Skull on Vormir or wonder about how he'd have to liquify the reality stone again - but I don't think any of that is literally necessary. Just return the stones to the right part of the timeline in a way that it can self-heal.
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Post by Hari Seldon on Jun 12, 2021 1:06:55 GMT
When Owen was showing Loki how he killed Coulson, I was REALLY hoping it would include some AoS footage and a mention of Coulson not staying dead. No such luck.
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Post by backroadjunkie on Jun 12, 2021 5:45:24 GMT
When Owen was showing Loki how he killed Coulson, I was REALLY hoping it would include some AoS footage and a mention of Coulson not staying dead. No such luck. While I don't think it'll happen... (Hey, could be a "What If" episode, lol.)
Sometime in S4? Definitely in S5, Team Coulson became a variant.
That means the Team could be retcon'd back to the primary timeline.
Uh-huh...
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Post by Jemma Simmons on Jun 12, 2021 12:08:02 GMT
When Owen was showing Loki how he killed Coulson, I was REALLY hoping it would include some AoS footage and a mention of Coulson not staying dead. No such luck. Yeah, sounds like they’re REALLY sticking to not mentioning that in any way that could affect the movies.
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Post by Jemma Simmons on Jun 12, 2021 19:43:17 GMT
Finally got to watch and WOW! So impressed so far and can’t wait to see where they are going with this!
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Post by Hari Seldon on Jun 13, 2021 1:18:23 GMT
Forgot to mention, the "Mongolia" green screen was really bad. Not that any of us thought they really went there to film, but it was REALLY obvious.
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Post by TommyWizard on Jun 13, 2021 17:10:17 GMT
I really liked it! Also i watched a decent amount of videos about it and i think the condition to become a variant and create a branching timeline is to move an infinity stone out of her intended place. It would really be coherent with the Ancient One talk with Banner in Endgame that shows that removing a stone create a branch. Also there were deleted footages about that scene that tie even more with that theory (speaking of clipping the branchs) also one of the video reminded of Cap in ending saying the same thing that can be easily seen multiple times in the TVA on posters. Time will tell its correct. Also another theory why the infinity stones are useless in TVA and that add weight to the previous : When they confiscate the Stone moved by a variant in a Nexus event, they prune the timeline with that device, destroying like it never existed. So like they said multiple time the stones are tied to the creation of the universe or something so its not too far fetched to think if their timeline is gone, they become just pretty rocks (or Paper Weights ) Also that individual killing Minutemen might very be Lady Loki, maybe she's stealing the charge that prune timelines to make a stable alternative one? Or something else?
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Post by ayanami on Jun 13, 2021 18:54:48 GMT
When Owen was showing Loki how he killed Coulson, I was REALLY hoping it would include some AoS footage and a mention of Coulson not staying dead. No such luck. ^THAT, so very much!! I knew it was probably naive to hope for ANY kind of acknowledgment of AoS by the "main" MCU at this point, but that part of the episode still broke my heart. If there ever was a moment to just have one throwaway line about AoS actually existing, this would have been it!
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Post by ayanami on Jun 13, 2021 19:44:12 GMT
Despite the fact that I completely adore the character, I was actually a bit wary about Loki at first, because the trailer seemed a bit too "wacky" for my liking, and I didn't really get where they were going with the plot. In the end I have to say that I really liked it, though. Tom Hiddleston is on point as always, Owen Wilson is a likable "one-sane-man" in the crazy time agency they introduced, and the rest of the cast seems to be solid, although - after just one episode - I reserve final judgement at this point. Funnily enough, I had a bit of a "sigh" moment in the beginning of the show, when I fully realised that this version of Loki would be based pretty much entirely on his incarnation in The Avengers. Of course that was obvious before, what with the set-up in Endgame, and yet it only really sank in for me was when I watched it play out on screen. Now, my problem with that is the following: Avengers-Loki was insane!!! Yeah, sure, the movie was totally awesome and Loki made for a very fun villain, and yet the character had rather little to do with how he was established in Thor 1 and even the future Thor movies as well as Infinity War. Joss Whedon himself admitted that he had no idea how to write Loki when he did The Avengers. I was always fine with handwaving the descrepencies in the character and to chalk them up to whatever happened after Loki's fall from the Bifrost Bridge at the end of Thor and to his time with Thanos. And to assume that he came back to his senses during the time of his imprisonment in Asgard. But to have them now reset the character to his fullblow insane-god-phase?! Oh, boy... But they addressed it! Sure, they didn't just say "Hey, Loki, ever noticed that your bahaviour and actions in the last few days were pretty out-of-character for you?", but they actually gave him a psych-eval and a future-character-development crashcourse and I could not have been happier about it!! So, yeah, lots of doors now open for the character to go through, lots of ways for the plot to develop. And I'm happy to be along for the ride!! I guess the one thing that kind of annoys me is the "been there, done that. Like a million times" feeling I now have whenever time travel 'agencies' or whatever are involved. Doctor Who has the Timelords. DC's Legends of Tomorrow had the Time Masters. The Umbrella Academy has the Temps Commission. Star Trek has the Department of Temporal Investigations. And I bet there are like a dozen others I can't think of right now. It still is a cool concept - if done right - but just not something that feels fresh anymore. The Umbrella Academy's Temps Commission in particular feels like a veeeery close relative of the TVA, what with the insanely advanced technology that still looks ridiculously old-school. But, well, great minds think alike, I guess. Still looking forward to see where Loki goes with all this. Btw, does anyone have a list of all the easter eggs that were in the drawer at the TVA next to the infinity stones?
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Post by backroadjunkie on Jun 13, 2021 20:37:25 GMT
Forgot to mention, the "Mongolia" green screen was really bad. Not that any of us thought they really went there to film, but it was REALLY obvious. If you look at the credits, they employed something like 10 effects houses. A couple were probably there because of the 2D animation, but 10? (Well, okay, it is 5.5 hours of screentime, and it is a effects heavy show...)
Yeah, Mongolia looked off. The lighting wasn't right. It almost looks like they were using a matte painting as the background.
Using The Volume would have solved that. I hope Marvel starts using one at least for their D+ shows...
Off-topic: Speaking of the Volume, did anyone see that new Unreal 5 promo? This is really effing incredible stuff. I wonder if Mando S3 is using Unreal 5...
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Post by backroadjunkie on Jun 13, 2021 21:40:21 GMT
Despite the fact that I completely adore the character, I was actually a bit wary about Loki at first, because the trailer seemed a bit too "wacky" for my liking, and I didn't really get where they were going with the plot. In the end I have to say that I really liked it, though. I've rewatched it (and highly recommend a second watch, there's a hundred details you missed the first time, lol), and it is (so far) a very well crafted show. It is not only reshaping Loki as a character, but introducing some very importing points about the future of the MCU. Probably.
Some of the shots are beautiful, like the one of Loki and Mobius in the corridor, and the camera pushes out between them to show the city. I had to back it up and watch it again. (I remember reading an article 30 years ago that stated we'd be watching television with the ability to pause the show or back it up, and thinking it was a "flying car" type pipe-dream, yet here I am. So where the hell is my flying car? Huh? Huh?)
The guy who's writing it, is the same guy who wrote "Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness", so the multiverse that's being set up is *the* MCU multiverse... I'm not sure seeing your throat being crushed by Thanos is a psych-eval, lol. But yeah, knowing his "Glorious Purpose" was nothing more than a catch phrase probably knocked a lot of reality into the character. I think he's still going to be Loki, just not as lethal anymore. Sorta like the Terminator after the kid told him not to kill anyone anymore.
Wouldn't it be interesting if Loki runs into Loki-prime, which is why Loki-prime because less of a dick after The Avengers?
To be fair about it, the Time-Keepers have been around since the late 70's/early 80's. Considering their history in the comics, they may be very key figures in the MCU, assuming the next Thanos-level villain is the guy everyone is assuming it is. (That's not a spoiler, is it? ) Other than the Honus Wagner baseball card? (It's the holy grail of baseball cards. ) If you want a laugh, go to YouTube, search for "Loki Easter Eggs". Haven't watched a single one, I'm not going to poison my recommended list, lol. Here's one that's claiming 77, which is about 1.5 easter eggs per minutes...
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